How we should treat China

Superficially, this sounds good.

But it is unrealistic to imagine that over 330 million Americans--well, perhaps 200 million adults--will all display such outrage against China as to decline to purchase anything manufactured there.

And you are not addressing my suggestion that we allow no one from China into America, and vice-versa.

 

You wouldn't need to ask them to leave. The Chinese already run those companies. Thousands of them.
The only sound you would hear is the profits evaporating.

 

It must be nice to be so naive.

http://www.jiesworld.com/international_corporations_in_china.htm

 

This is merely a drive-by insult--not a thoughtful response.

 

Did you look at the short list of the US companies?
How much money do you think they make selling stuff to China - forget about what they import to the US or ship to other countries.

 

At what point does one become a slave?

when they work without compensation?
when they work for minimum wages?
when their compensation does not meet their basic needs?
or
when their compensation does not provide a margin of substantial gain?

In order to maximize profits, many US companies moved their manufacturing to China in order to enjoy "cheap" (slave) labor.
The Communist Chinese State has become enormously wealthy, while the subjects mostly remain quite poor.
so China basically operates as a slave labor manager, selling it's labor to foreign interests...but keeping the profits for CCP use.

We should treat China as a Slave holder. However, as has always been, money to be made takes priority over human rights.

 

Wait just a minute.......which did we attack preemptively first.......Germany or Japan ?
You view of the US is quite twisted. Exactly how did you come to get your knowledge?

 

Wow, a rightie proposing Socialism - or is it Communism you prefer.

 

actually you pretty wrong on that, china living standard raised dramatically compare to 80s, its the one of the biggest reason chinese are ok with an authoritarian government. There are much cheaper place to operate such as india/vietnam/cambodia, even mexico. Many company stay in china is due to their integrated supply chain, infrastructure, worker who learn manufacture skill over the decades etc. if you dont understand this, then dont even bother talking about why company stay there. for low tech factory, such as textile etc, company already move to vietnam/india etc.

just one example go look tesla factory build time and scale in China vs Foxconn "claim" scale in US and timeline.

 

If you can't get a significant portion of Americans to be so outraged against China so that they will stop buying their products how can a presidential candidate win an election running on that platform?

 

if you really think IP are that easy to steal, then you really underestimate US cybersecurity. furthermore, sometime reverse engineer is much harder than just design it yourself.
Also Trump make hundreds millions off china, his daughter got dozens "Trump" right in china. During financial crisis Trump dealing with HK/China realtors, rip millions if not hundreds of millions in revenue.

 

I know people with terabytes of Chinese bootlegged movies on there hard drives. Don’t tell me intellectual property is hard to steal. If the President does business with China that’s too bad and he shouldn’t. Several companies do business with them that basically have no choice. I’m not holding any of them accountable. We’re talking about the moral argument here of government policy and trade law. I noticed you avoided that part.

 

Probably lots of money.

But what, exactly, does this have to do with my point?

After all, it is true that we are a capitalist country; but our national set of ethics should trump all monetary considerations.

 

Well, we will just have to wait and see, I suppose.

Anyway, that is not the only matter that he is running on. Not by a long shot.

And, in any case, it seems down right silly to imagine that the electoral vote (which is all that really matters) will largely mirror the popular vote.

It certainly did not in 2016...

 

It has everything to do with your point.
Without China US companies would be severely impacted. This is better for us how?

 

lol compare downloading movies on harddrive vs corp/defense firewall, really? go study cybersecurity a bit then come back. I work in tech, company has layer upon layers of firewall, VPN, 2 factor authorization etc etc to protect them from unwanted intrusion. some has close network. if company keep getting hack, it just mean they have 3rd rated cyberdefense or ignored IT for too long.

 

You’re off topic. Intellectual property is intellectual property. As usual you lefties miss the point.

 

You’re missing the point. So according to your reasoning if your car gets stolen, it’s perfectly acceptable for the cops to do nothing and the thieves are blameless because your car alarm didn’t go off.
Try integrating the larger issue.

 

i'm not missing the point, its NOT that easy to hack into high tech corp server, period. and you honestly think we are not doing the same thing to china/russia etc? what do you think NSA/CIA/cybercommand is there for. ever heard of sputnik iran. espionage between nation is oldest profession there is.

 

Again- the discussion is about US trade policy, and how it pertains to American freedoms, not cyber security. I think you’re on the wrong thread.
Because something is able to be stolen doesn’t mean it should be. There are also patents and other intellectual property stolen.

 

It might not be better for the bottom line of those companies.

And it might not be better for the budgets of consumers.

But you have still danced all around my central point, without even attempting to address it, viz.: "[O]ur national set of ethics should trump all monetary considerations."

In other words, most Americans--including myself--do not wish to live in an amoral society--regardless of the possible monetary benefits that this might bring.

However, since you evidently do not wish to address this point...

 

I don't need to address it. You just did.
It's not good for companies and it's not good for consumers.
Who is it good for?

 

It’s good for the Chinese worker for one.
it’s also good for any nation in the world that fears Chinese aggression.
It’s good for the US worker in that the competition for goods will be cheaper as manufacturing comes back. Or are you not for Americans having jobs again?
You do realize that same argument you’re using mirrors the arguments used FOR slavery in America right?

 

Do you have something against Chinese workers?
I would suggest China would be much more dangerous hungry that the way they are now.
We don't have enough people to do those jobs. Nor do we have the people willing to do them. You might also explain how thing would be cheaper made here. Do you honestly think we could build a city like China has done for Apple, find the people to work it and do it cheaper?
My argument is for Capitalism. Now if you want to talk about a socialist or communist economy, bring up your favorite and lets talk about it.
Sounds so easy...

 

lets be clear, force US company back to america just not gonna happen unless you put 100% tariff on China. even then those company will just move to vietnam/india or other place. Also US is not the largest China customer anymore, that title belong to EU, SK/Japan/ASEAN trade more with china than US, same with many other nations. Just because we separate from china doesn't mean others will, and others will benefit the most. eventually others(SK/Japan/EU) will out compete US not just economy but tech as well, in that case the two biggest loser will be china and US. Since they can access both US and China market, and benefit from both side. basically mean we hand over extraordinary benefit to those countries at the cost of US tech and economy.
just one example if china decide to retaliate by stop buying boeing plane, not only boeing will lose $trillion market, but layoff tens thousands american worker, but worst Airbus will eventually overtake boeing as biggest jet liner in the world. rolls royce will replace GE jet engine, as more $$$ for airbus mean more R&D for airbus and less R&D for GE/Boeing. Same with MicroChip, Samsung/Japan can fully take advantage of the situation and out R&D, profit compare to Qualcomm and other semiconductor company in US. with eroding US high tech, the US wealth will erode as well.

oh and dont forget US investment in China is over tens trillions of $$$ over the decades, GM/Ford/Macdonlad/starbuck, almost every US brand operate in China bring hundreds billions revenue to american headquarter. Even trump family earn alot from China. do you honestly think business just gonna give up on that.