"I am a Zionist"

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Kokomojojo, Dec 28, 2020.

  1. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Zionism Is Not Judaism
    06/02/2010 02:53 pm ET Updated May 25, 2011
    It is often the case that the Israeli Zionist state engages in actions that horrify the average layperson. The most recent flotilla incident — called an “act of piracy” by the Turkish Foreign Minister — which resulted in the deaths of at least nine human rights activists, is one such instance. It is also the case that when Israel does something abhorrent, ordinary Jewish people around the world are forced to be defensive. Holding ordinary Jewish people morally responsible for the actions of the Israeli Zionist state is not only wrong, it is racist. That’s because while Israel purports to be the Jewish State, it is in fact only the Zionist state.

    Israel does not represent the Jewish people. Israel represents people who believe that Jewish people should have a state in Palestine/Israel to the exclusion of the Palestinians. Those people are Zionists.

    Orthodox Jews are real Jews, I made that abundantly clear in my previous post, zionist J-Ws hijacked jewery for their own ends.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
  2. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    Cute. Horribly wrong, of course, but cute nonetheless. The 4-years-old-who-proudly-claimed-that-she's-always-right (true story) kind of annoying cute.

    Orthodox Judaism is not what you pretend it is. Not at all. You're wandering in the desert in the opposite direction, away from Canaan. I don't know if you really believe what you write (or quote), but I simply can't take you seriously. I find it very hard to accept that anyone with an internet connection, and fingers strong enough to type in the Google search bar, would sincerely believe the kind of stuff you post.

    I'd like to know your opinion on other religious and/or ethnic groups. Are ISIS the true Muslims, or at least the true Sunni Muslims? Or maybe the Muslim Brotherhood? Are only Sunni Turks true Turks? Are only deeply religious Shia Iranians true Iranians? How about Hindus, are they the true Indians, or maybe the Sikhs? Are only Muslim Arabs true Arabs? Are Copts real Egyptians? Are left wing radicals in Germany fake Germans, or perhaps the right wing radicals? How does one decide who is true and who isn't?

    Or do only Jews have to collectively think and act the same to be considered "true Jews"?

    I don't expect a coherent, rational reply, but I just had to try.

    Evasive maneuvers noted.
     
  3. Ronald Hillman

    Ronald Hillman Banned

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    Pretty much hit the nail on the head!
     
  4. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    The idea that Jews would construct the world's biggest ghetto in the middle of a huge, hateful population of an opposing religious faith is beyond reason. The obvious 'home' for these people, especially after WWII, was North America. Canada and the U.S. have never had a pogrom. Rather, both have innumerable examples of successful practicing Hebrews. Zionism started as a European intellectual exercise with more to do with ideology than Abraham & Sons.
    We can wish Israel well and hope for its prosperous future without indulging in excessive zeal for a dubious ideology.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
  5. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    "Obvious home"? You mean, the same US that refused entry to Jews fleeing Nazi atrocities? The same Canada where Jews fleeing Nazis were kept in concentration camps?

    Pfftt.
     
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  6. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    Shalom.
     
  7. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course Zionism is not Judaism – you are comparing apples to bicycles.
    Zionism is the answer to anti-Semitism and Judaism is…I would say a Jewish culture.
    Israeli Zionist state engages in the same actions and an average democratic state which is in the war, some of them that horrify the average layperson. It has nothing to do with Judaism or Zionism.
    Israel represent only citizens of Israel, and every Jew has a right to became citizen of Israel, the same way as everyone who can prove German or Polish roots can became a citizen of Germany or Poland.
    Who is a real Jew? This is a senseless discussion as discussion who is a real Indian, who is a real Black, who is a real Arian or who is a real man.
     
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  8. Ronald Hillman

    Ronald Hillman Banned

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    No, in no other country does an imagined roots from 2000 years ago entitle someone to citizenship.
     
  9. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I didn't say that in another country roots from 2000 years ago entitle someone to citizenship - every country has its own rules who is entitled to the citizenship. A person who converts to Judaism according to the orthodox rules is entitled to Israeli citizenship even if he/she is Black, Brown or Inuit and has no roots to the Middle East.
     
  10. Ronald Hillman

    Ronald Hillman Banned

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    No, having roots in Germany or Poland gives you no right to citizenship, only Jews claim that right.
     
  11. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volga_Germans
    [...]
    After the German invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941 during World War II, the Soviet government considered the Volga Germans potential collaborators, and deported many of them eastward, where thousands died. After the war, the Soviet Union expelled a moderate number of ethnic Germans to the West. In the late 1980s and 1990s, many of the remaining ethnic Germans moved from the Soviet Union to Germany.

    I met a such Volga German - not sure is he received citizenship immediately.

    About Poland:
    https://polaron.com.au/services/eu-...tizenship/polish-citizenship-through-descent/
    [...]
    Most people whose parents, grandparents or great-grandparents were born in Poland qualify for Polish citizenship through descent.
     

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