If you’re moral, create a version of your religious texts that disaproves of slavery

As a moral modern Secular Humanist, if your belief system's texts actually approved of slavery (which Christianity/Islam/Judaism, etc. clearly do) you'd work hard to create a version of said texts that not only don't approve of slavery, but actively discourage slavery. Jesus approved of slavery, in multiple verses of the NT, unfortunately. A modern Secular Humanist would do this because, it can be argued, he's more moral than Jesus and and his followers that have a written belief system that approves of slavery, but who won't lift a finger to rectify that situation.

If Jesus can supposedly help Tim Tebow beat the other team, then Jesus could obviously (obviously!) simply issue a decree saying to improve the book that's most closely associated with his name.

You'd also be a better parent by doing this. If you're not fine with, say, your child's public school teaching approval of slavery, then why would you be ok with your religious texts teaching your children the same immorality? The best solution is obviously to create improved alternative versions of said immoral texts, so that your children are taught a higher level of morality. Clearly.

I believe in you; you can do this! (If you have the moral courage to simply stand up for what's right.) Will you rise to the occasion, my Christian/Islamic/Jewish friends?

 

I guess you have first to clear what kind of slavery you are speaking about. The traditional slavery (Egypt for example) , serfdom (Europe for example), the modern slavery (USA, Civil War), the "hire&fire" slavery of today (wageworkers) or other forms of slavery.

In general Christians don't have a big problem with slavery because a slave as well as a free [wo]man is a brother and sister in god. You can see very good in the textes of the bible that slavery is incompatible with the jewish-christian religion. Take the follwing text of Paulus for example that has nothing to do with freedom and slavery but lots to do with the basics of the christian religion then you can feel how "slavery" becomes a direct opposite of an handsome expression. Slavery fits not in the elementary structure of the christian religion because it's a word without free decisions.

http://youtu.be/VwP2QlBbfac

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Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in love. Honour one another above yourselves. Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervour, serving the Lord. Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. Share with the Lord's people who are in need. Practise hospitality. Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not think you are superior. Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: 'It is mine to avenge; I will repay,' says the Lord. On the contrary: 'If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.' Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. http://youtu.be/1T8Dmo64iFU

 

This line confused me a bit. A modern Secular Humanist would do... what? Re-write parts of the Bible? I don't see the point in that.

Nonetheless it's a very interesting topic. In Leviticus, God talks to Moses about slavery, but it seems to me that it's talking specifically about one form of slavery: indenture. Some say that there are parts of the bible that ban slavery by force, but it seems to me that it only bans kidnapping, and prisoners of war are allowed to be taken as slaves. Still, the majority of discussion of slavery in the bible that I've seen talks about those who enter into slavery through financial coercion rather than physical force. And in many cases the slavery of Israelites is banned or at least much more difficult. It could even be said that the combination of these factors is what brought the wrath of god down on Egypt. But still, there's no getting around the fact that in the bible, god himself tells Moses not that slavery is wrong, but that there are right and wrong ways to do slavery.

Indenture is much closer to modern wage slavery as Anobsitar points out, although factory workers aren't bought and sold in quite the same way and are free to quit their job at any time. I doubt many Christians today would espouse the idea of an employee being OWNED by the company they work for, though.

I've seen people defend slavery in the bible on the basis that the bible is about salvation, not politics. That doesn't jive though - how many times does the bible make proclamations about issues VASTLY smaller than slavery? Is slavery a trivial issue compared to cutting your hair? If a Christian were to believe that, for example, it was more important to your salvation that you avoid wearing clothing made of two different types of materials, than you know, not compelling another human being into a life of servitude, then they would be free to believe that. And I would be free to roll my eyes at the stupidity of it all.

I actually think many Christians and atheists view the bible the same way: as more of a (rather dated) guide than an infallible and unchanging word of god. And I'm fine with that. What concerns me is the prevalence of doublethink on that point. I know people who will tell me that the Bible is god's word, while thinking it's perfectly OK to steal office supplies, fancy their neighbours wife, or get a tattoo or the side of your hair cut. You can't have it both ways!

 

Your argument points out one of the multitude of contradictions found in the paradoxical personal/interventionist model of God.

God intervenes in life, ensuring Tim Teebow makes an obscene amount of money for chasing a leather ball around, yet another 26,000 starve to death.

Why?

If God can help someone become obscenely wealthy for a non-important job, then why not do other things? Stop starvation? Clarify the self-contradictory bits of the Bible that people argue over? You pray to God and get a job, but God can't stop a shooting in the theater? Some people put so little effort into their model of God, that I find it amusing that this has never occurred to them.

 

Your answer seems to be because you don't understand this you are thinking god is not existing so no one should believe in god. On the other side since hundreds and thousands of years people are asking such questions, they find out that they are not able to find a good answer and nevertheless they continue to believe in god. Counterquestion: Why not?

http://youtu.be/x2q2GFjhGaw

PS: And another question: Who is the master forcing you always to say on every question the same things completly independent from the context?

 

What's really fascinating about this to me is that modern Christians have evolved to a morality that is superior to what is demonstrated in the bible, showing that when the bible becomes untenable in it's moral principles, Christians are willing to abandon it. It was Christians who led the charge against slavery in the U.S., in spite of there being no moral indignation regarding the practice anywhere in scripture.
The attempted parsing of the variable degrees of righteousness in regards to different forms of slavery strikes me as a very weak defense, as no matter what slavery entails the ownership of one human being by another. Christians reject this, while the bible does not, leading to the conclusion that in some instances Christians have rejected the bible.
That's a start. If they embrace this they may be released by the bondage of scripture and find a more authentic faith.

 

Fear?

Why else would you believe in something that makes little sense?

 

My thread about slavery was amusing.

I did not receive one straight answer. Just a vague non-specific verse. LOL

 

Christians can't create a holy text. Unlike those who wrote the texts they now hold sacred, they've been brainwashed into thinking those texts were written by the Sky Demon and can never be changed (at least, not since the early church redacted them for the canon).

 

The Bible is arbitrary.

They more a person researches the nitty gritty bits of that assertion, and less and less it seems as a legitimate work.

 

To the True Christians™, the Bible is end-all and be-all of divine revelation. Since Revelation includes a snippet about no one being permitted to alter "this book," the Bible's final chapter includes a nice little warning for the faithful to heed. Hence, no rewriting of the Bible. Of course, they also can't write new texts to append to it, unless of course they happen to be Joseph Smith, a conman who, like L. Ron Hubbard, wanted to invent his own religion for his own gain.

You could edit and rewrite the Bible all you like, but most Christians by far would cry blasphemy and sooner burn it than read it.

 

I know that the dogma of the Freethinkianist Religion tells you that you should focus on the slavery part, your God and your Dogma requires this of you BUT...here is an advice for the followers of the Freethinkianist religion...if you don't know the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament just leave the Bible alone and stick to your Freethinkianist Lame Overused Blasphemous Jokes(tm), the Freethinkianist Lame Overused (Pseudo) Science Talk(tm), etecetera, etecetera...

 

The OT begins by God raising up Moses to deliver his people from the bondage of slavery in Egypt. To think then that the Bible champions slavery then is suspect. Although slavery was allowed within the nation of Israel, people were commanded to be set free after 7 years of service. This is another problem for those who declare that the Bible champions slavery. And lastly, Jesus said that sin is what enslaves us, and he came to set us free. So by his own words, Jesus was no fan of slavery.

I suppose Jesus could have declared that slaves should rise up and fight their masters, however, we saw the end result of this kind of thinking with Spartacus. Instead, Jesus focused in on changing the hearts of men, so that they would not wish to enslave and mistreat their fellow men. Judging that before Christ most of the world worked in chains as slaves, I would say that the impact of one Jesus Christ has been the single greatest blow to slavery in the history of the world in relation to his worldwide influence. In other words, before Jesus most of the world worked as slaves. After Jesus, those numbers decreased greatly over the centuries.

Of course, the kicker here is that God gave us free will. It is only man who comes to take it away and there be a never ending number who are ready to do it if given the oppurtunity.

 

Read it again. The 7 year catch and release program only applied to Jewish slaves held by Jews. They could keep Gentile slaves forever.

The Israelites were never slaves in Egypt. When the thieves arrived they got the best land and gravy jobs. The Egyptians gave the head thief a state funeral. They lived off of Egyptian welfare for hundreds of years, breeding like rabbits. A pharaoh had them build two treasure cities and they whined like the whiners they are. After wrecking Egypt they stole everything smaller than the Sphinx when they left. And as soon as they crossed the border they wanted to go back and resume their lives of ease off the backs of the Egyptians. (That's according to the Bible)

 

As I said, the Bible made room for slaves to be free after 7 years even though it may not have been for all slaves. This is a testament that slavery was frowned upon from a Biblical viewpoint. During that time, it was probably the most "slave free" society in the ancient world, along with its Sabbaath that dared give slaves and free alike one days rest.

As for the rest of your dribble, it really does not surprise me in the least. You have no interest in giving the text a fair shake, only bashing it.

 

I'm sure you will win the nemesis Christians normally are not fighting in - but I'm not sure what you will win within the nemesis.

http://youtu.be/yVc_D23ugNM

 

I think that you'd have a hard time finding approval of slavery by Jesus. Recognition that it exists, sure. Since the core of Jesus' teachings is that all humans are equal before and equally loved by God, it would be an extreme contradiction to then suggest that one human can be rightly owned by another. The golden rule ought to be enough argument against the practice, though most of the Christian thought on the matter didn't appear in force until 18th century abolitionism became prominent.

What is your argument against slavery?

 

If I have a dogma, surely you can point it out? Dogmas have a source, are preached in a pulpit and accepted by unthinking idiots. That's what churches do, not free thinkers. A freethinking dogma is quite a self-contradictory concept. Of course, you're primed for that sort of thing - for doublethink - if you're a bible-believer. Plus, it's clear that you're desperate to project the faults you cannot accept about yourself and your fellow believers onto those who attack your beliefs instead.

Regarding Old and New Testaments, what difference do you feel that I or others may be missing, besides the obvious?

 

The strange thing is not that you say this - the strange thing is your hate and that you don't understand on your own what you say here.

http://youtu.be/hUT6H2m00Rs

 

What do you presume that I don't understand?

 

Sorry - I'm an unthinking idiot - I don't understand what you asked.

http://youtu.be/4pF5bai_44s

 

Christianity is clearly immoral, then.

 

"Work makes free", isn't it?

http://youtu.be/9X30Jm6_aGw

 

If God considered slavery moral, He won't need to deliver the Jews out of Egypt from slavery. On the other hand, planet earth is a place for humans' freewill to be execised. If 99% of human nations considered slavery legal, it's not a hurry for God to demand the Jews to so much unlike their human counterparts. The actual priority as a parallel to Exodus is that God would like to spiritually deliver humans from the slavery of sin/Satan.

In that period of time, the Egyptians killed the Jews' children on sight simply because the Jews got over-populated. If other human ethnic groups enslave the Jews, God allows to Jews to enslave them back. At that period of time in History, it is referred to as the policy of "eye for eye and tooth for tooth". God however regulated the situation such that 1) the Jews will treat their fellow Jews fairly, 2) as masters they won't treat their slaves as bad as the Egypts and other neighbours did.

All in all, if the Jews were saints while their neighbours are as cruel as the Egyptians, the Jews will be the first to be wiped out from human history, especially during the period before they entered Canaan. God won't allow that happen as He has a job for them to achieve to save humans.

 

Only RELIGION can get people to defend SLAVERY, like you just did. Incredible. Guys, please move beyond your ancient ridiculous superstitions (read Dawkins, Dennett, etc....gee wiz) like Santa, Jesus, Allah, etc.
Only RELIGION can get people to defend PEDOPHILIA (search on this forum for "Mohammad Aisha" or "Mohammad Aysha")
Only RELIGION can get people to defend KILLING INNOCENT GAYS. I think even the Hindu texts say that as well.