Inside the Pentagon’s fight over Russia. US troops ‘annihilated’.

Brushing aside juvenile comments from some US posters on this forum let’s pay closer attention to what accomplished and respected US generals have to say about US army preparedness. US hero Macgregor believes that the US troops would not only be defeated by annihilated by Russkies on a conventional battlefield. There is a quite interesting debate going inside the Pentagon. Are you with Macgregor or with McMaster?

Inside the Pentagon’s fight over Russia
http://www.politico.eu/article/inside-the-pentagons-fight-over-russia-us-eastern-europe/

 

I don't care what Macgregor or McMaster espouses....I'm for peace.

 

For the Napoleons in the Pentagon, check out this video and consider Denis Davidov Денис Давыдов
[video=youtube;5UOxVD9KUkA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UOxVD9KUkA[/video]

 

This is an example of former U.S. Generals who are either EMPLOYED or have ties...ie....GET PAID....by very large U.S. Military Contractors....talking about the need to spend more money on U.S. Weapons Systems that we don't need!!!

This is standard operational procedure as large U.S. Military Contractors like General Dynamics, Electric Boat, Boeing, Lockheed Martin...etc....will hire former U.S. Military Generals and keep them on payroll as they do their rounds on the Political/Media circuit talking about U.S. Military weakness in this area or that...etc.

It's all CRAP designed to sway public opinion so people will support additional defense funding of S#!# WE DON'T NEED!!!

Example is the current outcry by some Military Payroll Junkies about the possibility of a U.S/Russian Military Confrontation.

#1. That will never happen.
#2. The U.S. Conventional Forces would cut through any Russian Conventional Forces like a Hot Knife through Warm Butter.
#3. WE DON'T NEED ANYMORE TANKS, TROOP CARRIERS, MLRS SYSTEMS....ETC!

AboveAlpha

 

Me, too!

 

Don't you? Watch this then tell me if you've changed your mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xuqa1xKxOs

Be careful your complacency doesn't bite you, Alpha?

 

What good is having a lot of Soldiers when you can't get them anywhere?

Sure China has a lot of Soldiers but China has absolute ZERO in the way of Force Projection.

Since the U.S. has no intentions of ever invading China and since China has absolutely no possible way of getting Chinese Military Forces past the U.S. Navy and Air Force....those Chinese Soldiers will continue to stay in China.

AboveAlpha

 

It isn't only about numbers, it's about hardware and the intelligence to use it! And you haven't had time to watch the video? Are you in some sort of denial

 

Oh I watched some of the video and there is nothing in it I am not aware about.

China is multiple decades behind U.S. Military Technology and 50 years behind U.S. Military capability.

China is really not much of a threat to the U.S. but China is a threat to nations in that region f the world and that's why we have such an incredibly massive and lethal Navy.

AboveAlpha

 

Sorry to say this - especially as I used to think you had a lot of inside information and knew what you were talking about - but I'm now beginning to wonder if you're some kind of Walter Mitty character.

 

DECADES BEHIND THE WEST?

Chen played down Chinese military advances on his trip, telling the audience of U.S. military officers and faculty at the National Defense University the People's Liberation Army lagged at least 20 years behind developed Western nations.

"To be honest, I feel very sad after visiting (the United States), because I think, I feel and I know, how poor our equipments are and how underdeveloped we remain," Chen said.

Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the U.S. military's Joint Chiefs of Staff and Chen's host, stressed the importance of renewed dialogue to minimize the risk of misunderstanding.

"What he and I have both talked about is a future that is a peaceful future and a better one for our children and grandchildren. That does not include a conflict between China and the United States," Mullen told reporters.

But some members of Congress criticized the U.S. military for too openly engaging with Chen and his delegation, particularly his access to U.S. military facilities. Chen will visit Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada, home to some high-tech U.S. defenses.

"There can be no doubt that every scrap of information this expert delegation collects will be used against us," said Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, head of the House Foreign Affairs Committee in a statement.

"The Chinese military openly regards the United States as an enemy," she said. "We should not undermine our own security by thinking we can make friends with self-proclaimed adversaries with hospitality and open arms."

Still, the Chinese and U.S. economies, Chen noted, are inextricably linked. China has the world's biggest foreign exchange reserve, with about two-thirds estimated to be held in dollars. Jokes about U.S. dependence on China to finance its debt are commonplace in the United States, and Chen appeared to seize the opportunity in Washington.

LINK....http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/19/us-usa-china-idUSTRE74I05720110519#bkkBjRBjvOFsSYWB.97

You really have no clue as to what you are talking about.

AboveAlpha

 

Well one of us hasn't, that's for sure!

 

And you base this upon your experience?

AboveAlpha

- - - Updated - - -

Even the Chinese are aware of the Military disparity.

AboveAlpha

 

Brushing aside juvenile comments from some pro Russian posters on this forum let's not play closer attention to people who rely on internet articles to pose themselves as military experts on the US armed forces.

 

And your information comes from youtube??

 

So?
Vietnam was barely out of the stone age when America declared war against them. Didn't make any difference.

 

Who runs and operates our Panama Canal today that President Carter gave away ?
http://www.eagleforum.org/psr/1999/nov99/psrnov99.html

What makes you think that the chi-coms haven't already deployed forces in America ? -> http://www.house.gov/coxreport/chapfs/over.html

 

Not true, Saigon, Da Nang, Hue, and most Vietnamese cities back during the 1960's were more modern and cleaner than most cities in Mexico today.
It was the French who built many of the cities be it Hanoi or Saigon. Saigon use to be called the Paris of the Orient. Tijuana is known for it's donkey shows, feces covered TP on the bathroom floors and beheadings by the cartel.

 

There is no way the US could ever beat Russia in a conventional war for one reason....motivation. Washington has been trying to break up and destroy the Russian Federation for three decades now. Russia on the other hand, is trying to defend itself from an unscrupulous aggressor.

 

LOL!!!

ABSO...FREANIN....LUTELY!!!

It boggles the mind that when I or other members who are both aware and experienced as far as aspects of U.S. Military weapons systems and their capability after we might post anything specific to this effect are CONSTANTLY BOMBARDED with certain either Pro-Putin or U.S.-Haters with their reply posts that once read by myself or others that are very informed about U.S. Military capability.....basically read to us as.........

UH UH!!!

NOT TRUE!!!

WAH!!!!

U.S. BAD....PUTIN GOOD!!!

U.S. BAD....CHINA GOOD!!!

YER LYING AND I WANT MY PUTIN HEAD BOTTLE!!!!

WAAAHHH!!!! WAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!

After awhile it get's sickening!!

It's one thing for a member to disagree with any post I might make detailing the vast U.S. Military Superiority that currently exists over every other Nations Military existing by at the very least providing some evidence .....and it's another thing altogether for a member to just whine and cry that what I am posting is not a fact just because they say so!!!

If a member wants to disagree....FINE!! But at least show me and all other members SOMETHING that might back your position!!!

Just acting like a 3 year old throwing a tantrum is something that I KNOW annoys the HELL out of those members who actually know something about the issue.

And lately this forum has had to issue a LOT of TIME OUTS for some bottle baby members!

Ohhh.....there he goes again! Hey Shang!! Where the HELL did his BINKY go???

AboveAlpha

 

It didn't make any difference because LBJ Micromanaged the war and would not let his Generals win it!!!

Rules of Engagement for the U.S. Military was...DO NOT SHOOT UNTIL YOU ARE SHOT AT....and even if you are shot at don't shoot back if they are shooting at you for above this line!!

WE could have directly targeted North Vietnam at the beginning of the war but LBJ refused to allow the U.S. Military to do it.

We really didn't even start heavy bombing of the North until Nixon was in office.

When the North Vietnamese walked away from the Peace Table President Nixon ordered Linebacker II which forced the North Vietnamese back to the peace table and resulted in the total destruction and devastation of North Vietnam.

The strikes of the 24th were followed by a 36-hour Christmas stand-down, during which Air Force planners went to work to revise their plans for the next phase of operations. Due to aircraft losses during the initial phase, they intended to launch an all-out attack on North Vietnam's air defenses when the operation resumed. This course was also necessary since, by Christmas, most of the strategic targets within North Vietnam were in shambles.[61]

SAC also belatedly turned over tactical mission planning to its subordinate Eighth Air Force headquarters on Guam, which promptly revised the previously costly tactics. Instead of utilizing multiple waves, all of the bombers would be in and out of the target area within 20 minutes and they would approach from multiple directions and at different altitudes. They would exit by varying routes and the steep PTTs were eliminated.[62] Ten targets, in both the Hanoi and Haiphong areas, were to be struck by bombers approaching in seven separate streams, four of which were to come in off the Gulf of Tonkin.[63] Additional jammers were also installed in the B-52Gs, allowing them to return to the operation.[citation needed]

On 26 December 120 bombers lifted off to strike Thai Nguyen, the Kinh No complex, the Duc Noi, Hanoi, and Haiphong Railroads, and a vehicle storage area at Van Dien. 78 of the bombers took off from Andersen in one time block, the largest single combat launch in SAC history, while 42 others came in from Thailand.[64] The bombers were supported by 113 tactical aircraft which provided chaff corridors, escort fighters, Wild Weasel SAM suppression, and electronic countermeasures support.[65]

The North Vietnamese air defense system, though still capable, was overwhelmed by the number of aircraft it had to track in such a short time period and by a dense blanket of chaff laid down by the fighter-bombers.[66] 250 SAMs had been fired from 18 until 24 December,[44] and the strain on the remaining North Vietnamese inventory showed, since only 68 were fired during the mission.[67] One B-52 was shot down near Hanoi and another damaged aircraft made it back to U-Tapao, where it crashed just short of the runway. Only two members of the crew survived.[68]

On the following night, 60 bombers flew the mission, with some attacking SAM sites while others struck Lang Dang, Duc Noi, the Trung Quang Railroad, and Van Dien. One B-52 was so heavily damaged that its crew ejected over Laos, where it was rescued. A second aircraft was not so lucky. It took a direct hit and went down while attacking the Trung Quang Railroad yards.[69] During the evening's operations two F-4s and an HH-53 search and rescue helicopter were also shot down.[55]

Day ten (28 December) called for strikes by 60 B-52s–15 Gs and 15 Ds from Andersen and 30 Ds from U-Tapao, The aircraft formed six waves attacking five targets. Four of the waves struck targets in the Hanoi area (including SAM Support Facility #5, while the fifth hit the Lang Dang Railroad yards southwest of Lang Son, a major chokepoint on the supply route from the People's Republic of China. No aircraft were lost on the mission.[68]

By the eleventh and final day (29 December), there were few strategic targets worthy of mention left within North Vietnam. There were, however, two SAM storage areas at Phuc Yen and the Lang Dang yards that could be profitably attacked.[70] A total of 60 aircraft again made the trip north, but the mix was altered; U-Tapao again provided 30 D models but the Andersen force was varied, putting 12 G models and 18 Ds over the north. Total bombing was rounded out by sending 30 G models on Arclight missions in southern panhandle of North Vietnam and in South Vietnam.[70] Once again, there were no aircraft losses to anti-aircraft fire, MiGs, or missiles.[citation needed]

Negotiating[edit]
On 22 December, Washington asked Hanoi to return to the talks with the terms offered in October.[71] On 26 December, Hanoi notified Washington that it was willing to "impress upon Nixon that the bombing was not the reason for this decision, the VWP Politburo told Nixon that halting the bombing was not a precondition for further talks."[72] Nixon replied that he wanted the technical discussions to resume on 2 January and that he would halt the bombing if Hanoi agreed. They did so and Nixon suspended aerial operations north of the 20th parallel on 29 December.

LINK....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Linebacker_II

Now the U.S. Military has learned MANY lessons from Vietnam and this resulted in the development of many new weapons systems and military tactics that allow the U.S. Military the capability to control any battlefield.

It is unfortunate that one lesson learned in Vietnam was forgotten as the U.S. Military should NEVER be used as a Police Force or be involved in Nation Building!!

AboveAlpha

 

China is not a Military threat to the United States....not even close.

Even the Chinese know this.

Besides....the Chinese Economy is highly dependent upon exports and sales of goods to the United States and if China was to attempt any Military action we did not approve of the United States could simply stop and not allow any Chinese Cargo Ships filled with exports bound for the U.S. to enter any U.S. Port.

The result of this would be the complete collapse of the Chinese Economy within a week.

The Chinese Economy cannot survive without it's export sales to the U.S.

AboveAlpha

 

Are you sure it isn't the other way around that it's America who has become dependent on chi-com imports ?

Americans have become so dependent on cheap stuff because most Americans under the age of 50 are clueless what quality is and have become dependent on cheap (quality and prices) chi-com imports. Without the PRC, most Americans would be running around butt naked.

Last year only 16.9 % of Chinese exports went to the USA. -> http://www.statista.com/statistics/270326/main-export-partners-for-china/

 

16.9% is a lot for one nation!!!

Nothing we get from China has any strategic import whatsoever.

China also deeply depends upon U.S. Coal exports to China.

AboveAlpha

 

That is wrong on both levels.

Vietnam was hardly a "barely out of the stone age" country. Certainly not in terms of their military. The Soviets built one of the best air defense networks in the world to protect Hanoi.

and the U.S. never declared war on Vietnam.