Iran raises uranium enrichment beyond nuclear deal limits

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by HumbledPi, Jul 7, 2019.

  1. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...ise-uranium-enrichment-amid-tensions-64172937

    Iran raises uranium enrichment beyond nuclear deal limits

    Iran increased its uranium enrichment Sunday beyond the limit allowed by its 2015 nuclear deal with world powers, inching its program closer toward weapons-grade levels while calling for a diplomatic solution to a crisis heightening tensions with the U.S.

    Iran's move, coupled with earlier abandoning the deal's limit on its low-enriched uranium stockpile, intensifies pressure on Europe to find any effective way around U.S. sanctions that block Tehran's oil sales abroad.

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    [snip] Under the nuclear deal, the cap for enrichment was set at 3.67%,[/snip]

    This not Iran racing towards a nuclear weapon. We know that because even if the Iranians are planning to enrich uranium to 5% that is still technical miles away from the 90% enrichment they would need to make weapons grade uranium. Thanks to the Iran deal they are not racing to that 90% because the inspections and monitoring were the most intrusive ever peacefully negotiated.

    This is aimed at the EU to try and raise the stakes with the Europeans to press them to give Iran the sanctions relief that they were promised.
     
  2. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Also aimed to the US. That, and the UK calling Trump and his entire clique... inept in general, but also on Iran specifically.
     
  3. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This ratcheting up the tension seems to be almost daring the Trump admin to do something.
     
  4. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    They know that the people in the US will not support war with Iran, so the propaganda cranks out to make certain that Americans will believe their propaganda, vilify Iran and support any US action against Iran. Increasing the enrichment of uranium to even 5% if far below the amount of enrichment (90%) need to develop a nuclear bomb.
     
  5. zer0lis

    zer0lis Well-Known Member

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    I think Iran knows that Trump risks his possible next term and political career if he starts a war.

    I am afraid the lost deal was the only way that Iran could have been stopped from developing nuclear weapons short of the war route.

    What was Trump thinking.. Hmm.. Maybe he wanted war in the first place but I doubt it. What can he do now to stop Iran, besides war?

    EU is impotent and Iran knows it but also a big if not the biggest business parter.
    Yet again EU loses a market and cheap oil going on with the sanctions. The US lost pretty much nothing.

    The higher the threat of war against Iran, the higher their desire to acquire those weapons thing which I don't want to happen. And no war..
    Damn Trump, you could have waited, all indicators shows that they were complying.
    I think he regrets his decision. Bad counseling also!
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
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  6. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    I honestly think the decision to cancel the Iran deal was twofold. First, John Bolton advocated a regime change in Iran long before he joined the Trump administration. I believe the real reason was to undo what Barack Obama's administration had achieved, even if it was working. Trump believes that sanctions on Iran and subsequent pressuring of the P5+1 to follow suit, would force Iran to fall to their knees. Trump feels that once he had their backs against the wall, he would dramatically 'rescue' the situation and work with Iran through diplomatic channels to get essentially what the US, Iran and the P5+1 had initially agreed to in 2015, but with a few tweaks.
     
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  7. James Evans

    James Evans Banned

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    Pulling out of the Iran deal was a terrible idea. Trump just wants to erase Obama's history regardless of the outcome. This is a sure-fire way to make a military conflict inevitable.
     
  8. James Evans

    James Evans Banned

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    Let's be clear. Iran didn't start this.
     
  9. zer0lis

    zer0lis Well-Known Member

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    I see your point. I didn't think of him trying to erase Obama's achievement. A good point, it might be true.

    But Iran will not trust the US again, that's a missed opportunity. I heard that all diplomatic channels are closed. They don't want any dialog anymore with the US. I don't blame them for this.
    If Trump wanted tweaks to the deal, he could have done this in countless ways but NOT this way.

    A reason to consider for tearing of the deal is his close ties with Israel.
     
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  10. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the Saudis also have a hand in this, I'm sure. One thing that people in the US don't 'get' is the Iran culture. It's with respect to the culture and traditions of Iran that US diplomats have been able to interact successfully with them. To be any US diplomat to any foreign country, the person must know that country inside and out. Their language, their culture, their history, what their goals are, who their allies are, everything matters when developing diplomatic relationships.

    The arrogance of the US has alienated many, both friend and foe. We believe that we can just say or do whatever enters our mind without regard for the culture of others. Case in point, Trump's address to the UN in 2018. He castigated Iran for sowing "chaos, death and destruction" in the Middle East and singled out China for what he called unfair trade practices that hurt American companies. He boasted about 'America first' and rejected globalization while embracing separatism.

    I was fortunate to have known a few Iranians. One was a young intern in the hospital I was working. He was in the US studying, as many were at the time. Once receiving their MD, they returned to Iran to set up their practice in their own country. I doubt there's many like that here now. I recall asking him what country he was from, he replied 'Persia'. I thought that strange then since we had only known it as Iran since the 30's. I knew another businessman, my husband worked with him. He invited us to his home, he had no children and was a newlywed. He told us how he stopped to get gas for his car, his wife was next to him in the front seat. Someone at the gas station made some kind of remark to his wife, she was quite beautiful. He was so insulted and outraged that anyone would dare insult his wife that way that he went straight to his truck and pulled out a shotgun and threatened the guy to never embarrass or insult his wife in that manner again.

    That's just how Iranians are raised, to respect. In return, they expect the same. Respect is just about the most important thing in that culture. Iran clashing with someone as crude as Trump isn't a surprise. Trump's constant criticism of Iran prompted their Supreme Leader to state: “I do not see Trump worthy of any message exchange, and I do not have any reply for him now or in the future."
     
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  11. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree - they did not. Iran is now throwing this in the Trump admin's face to some degree. An attack on Iran would require permission from Russia - at least on some level - even if not direct - tacit permission in the way that Russia will not react to strongly. That's kind of how things work these days when one is playing in the backyard of a superpower. At the end of the Day - Russia could just give Iran nukes - and we don't want that. Nor do we want Russia selling Iran their more modern conventional weapons and technologies.
     
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  12. James Evans

    James Evans Banned

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    And we could give nukes to whomever as well. The Iran deal was working. Now that Trump pulled out they are ramping up production. It was such an idiotic move.
     
  13. James Evans

    James Evans Banned

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    Best post I have read today. Very insightful.
     
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  14. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree. Not only did we pull out - breaking and agreement not just with Iran but with our allies and the rest of the Security Council - The sanctions have our allies in Europe mad as hell - to the point where they are using language like "messing with our sovereignty" - and saying this not in private - but publicly on the international state.

    While we are going round beating our allies and other nations over the head with a club - China and Russia are going around doing deals.
     
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  15. James Evans

    James Evans Banned

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    Trump is an idiot who thinks he is making a real estate deal in every foreign relations he has tried. It has failed miserably.
     
  16. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    We have analysts who understand Iran and Iranians. Trump doesn't seem interested in their assessment. How stupid is that?
     
  17. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    Because "only I can fix it". His ego is so out of control that he thinks he can run a government like a business, he cannot, especially like one of his many failed ones. He doesn't need, or want, anyone that he thinks is smarter than he, which is just about everyone. That's why his cabinet posts are filled with 'acting' appointments so he can just ignore them and do what he wants to do.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
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  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He is using the old "scare em and save em" sales tactic. He creates a huge drama - and then gets hails claims a win on some minor concession and then it is back to business as usual - where nothing much has changed.
     
  19. James Evans

    James Evans Banned

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    Dude I am doing 10 things right now.

    I honestly want to hear your point. Please present one and we can debate. I'm not busting your balls I'm honestly wanting a conversation. I say this in good faith. I want to have a conversation with you.
     
  20. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think we are on the same page to be honest. Trump has been going around trying to use a big stick to club nations - including our allies - into submission. This tactic has the EU in a state of fury - not just the politicians but the public. They have been using the most severe language "messing with our sovereignty". - not in private but in Public.

    The use of the "nuclear option" threatening to block a nations banks out of the international system of payments - is a straw that broke the camels back. The EU has now joined China/Russia and other nations in seeking a competitor to the US dollar's SOLE status.

    In addition - while the Trump admin is going around trying to club nations into submission - China and Russia are going around doing deals while our companies (who used to have preferred status) are now on the "do not deal with unless you absolutely have to" list.
     
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  21. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I know you get upset when true Patriots criticize the Gov't but, that doesn't make them Russian trolls. There are few things more anti-American than demonizing people for outing Gov't criminality. You and Putin have much in common.

    And quit pretending to have an understanding of economic issues - we know otherwise.
     
  22. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is far easier to use the U235 to fertilize the U238 into U239 and to use the resultant Pu239 in a bomb. This is in large part why Nixon abandoned the Oak Ridge Molten Salt Reactor - it isn't all that useful for making bombs.

    This is a step around enriching U235 to weapons grade. Plutonium is a different element entirely so seperating it from other actinides can be done by chemical means. This is far easier than separation of U235 from U238.

    The threat of nuclear weapons from Iran comes from the waste which already exists, not threat of future enrichment.

    We ought to get them on a reactor design which uses that old waste as new fuel. Then it can't be used in a bomb. Th232 is a fertile element which uses neutrons from fissile elements left over in waste to create U233, which does not decay into the worst of the worst - your Plutonium and similar dangerous materials which can be used in bombs.
     
  23. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No surprises here
    https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/...on-sanctions-breaching-uranium-enrichment-cap

    The US destroyed this deal and sanctioned Iran for keeping it. Nonetheless Iran continued to keep it on the belief that Russia, China and the EU were going to step up to the plate and allow them to continue to feed their population. This is no longer possible so Iran starts making moves to suggest that unless they do and tout de suite, they are moving towards the possibility of having nukes before the US can blink. The US has nothing else to sanction. It is leaving the people of Iran to die under siege having already promised a genocide on them. Big pretence to the people of the US that there is anything left to sanction. The US is killing Iran and all her people, intent on replacing them with the cultish terrorists, MEK the US support to rule Iran. Given that the US is intent on destroying the people of Iran, it is better for Iran to bring this to a head earlier rather than later. The US cannot win with Iran by a show of air power. The US will lose to Iran with the needed boots on the ground starting a war which could well go on until climate disaster makes human's extinct or Europe, Russia and China can do the right thing and start full scale economic activity with Iran..leaving the US the ones who must answer for their own actions.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  24. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Liberals are talking out of both sides of their mouth

    One one hand they make the wild claim that iran is not planning to build a nuclear weapon

    Then they mock us because the irans are indeed marching towards weapons grade material
     
  25. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    He gets rid of advisors who disagree with him, especially in public.
     
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