Jesus Christ is no myth

What do you mean by "the Roman soldiers being complicated?

Like I said, perhaps it is just a work of fiction that never happened thus no one was involved other than those who wrote the story. I can come up with plausible alternative explanations against the resurrection and you can raise good questions that support the resurrection. I for one hope that the story of the resurrection can one day be irrefutably proven or forever debunked, though I suspect that we will never know.

 

I'm not denying the existence of the Dead Sea Scrolls. I'm denying that any of them mention Jesus or Christianity.

 

Concentration on whether Jesus was real or not misses the whole point of Christianity. There is as much "proof" that Jesus was real as we have for many other historical figures who are widely accepted but this is, again, not the important aspect of Christianity.

In Christianity our God is a MAN, not a far away spiritual deity but a HUMAN BEING, one of US.

The implications of this are many and profound. The most important is that if we wish to see God we need only look at the person next to us. God is in the eyes of our children and our worst enemies and it is only when we see Him there that we become true Christians

 

The only issue was Jesus the man may have existed but was he a Wizard doing magic juju - no evidence for any of that.

 

There are no such facts as you claim.

The truth and facts are that valid evidence would not acceptable but you have not presented any evidence.

One more time and deal with reality. There is NO scientific, credible evidence that Jesus was even a real person.

The claims you made in the op have been debunked beyond saving and proven false.

That is that.

 

That's not original source material. Where's the original material?

 

I'm not sure what you are asking or why it is relevant. My claim was only that there are two passages in Josephus's work that mention Jesus. One is widely regarded by scholars as a forgery, perhaps based on elaborations to a passing mention, and the second is generally regarded as legitimate.

 

The point is, as always, that without the original document all claims are pure BS. In this case a con man claims that a guy named "Josephus" wrote something about his favorite imaginary ethnocentric Middle Eastern deity. We should have sense enough to know that it's a fake because there were no "J" names before an Italian invented the letter "J" in the 16th century. Consequently if the Roman historian "Josephus" existed that was not his real name. It's an alias, like the Jesus character he supposedly referred to. And if they can't get the names right how can they get anything else right?

 

Yes, the name Josephus, like the name Jesus, has been modernized. Unlike Jesus, however, we have the writings of Josephus. The fact that English translators use modernized versions of their names is kind of a moot point.

 

You have zero because you have no original documents.

People have been so brainwashed that they think if they could go back in time 2,000 years ago they could really find guys named John, Joseph, and Jesus. It's pathetic.

Produce original documents to support your position.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that I mail you some 1st century papyrus? Seriously?

P.S. - Literally no one is saying that these people went by the names Jesus and Josephus. Those are modernizations of their names. The documents in question do not use those names -- only the English translations do. Your complaint is a straw man and has nothing to do with the discussion.

In the off chance that you earnestly don't understand how documents from this era work: there was no printing press at the time. Writers hand-wrote their works, and they were distributed by copyists. Academics compile existing copies to look for any important differences, and the compiled works are then translated into various languages.

To recap:

1) No one thinks they were actually called Jesus and Josephus.
2) As with literally every other kind of piece of writing from the time period, we don't have Josephus's original, just the copies that were produced . . . because that's how books worked back then

If you'd like, I can do away with the distraction and provide you with Josephus's Greek and Hebrew names.

 

The point is that you can't produce copies of the so-called original works. You have nothing. It's all fake.

Now we've gotten the admission that the current names are aliases and that people with those names didn't exist. So why didn't the writers use their original names? Were they indicating that their stories were frauds and not based on reality? Why make up lies if the stories are true? Why were they ashamed to use the people's real names? Would you call George Washington "Green Wear"? So why refer to the "Son of God" character by an alias instead of his original name?

 

The current names are not aliases, the are simply from the Greek in to Latin and English. If you study various languages the J is used in different phonetic sounds, as is the letter 'i' even today. The letter J was brought in to translate the Hebrew Yod (Y) into a definite sound, rather than Yoshephus, Yesus, Yehovah.
It's no different to English names and the corresponding names in French. Juliette (French Juilette prounouced shzoolietta) - English Juliet. Yves (French - pronounced Eev) -English Ives.

That these people existed I am in no doubt. As did Tacitus.

 

According to your logic, all historical works are "fake" and the entire discipline of academic historical research is fantasy. Also, you shifted the goal post. You asked for originals and I said we only had copies, the you erroneously shifted your claim to involve copies.

Modernized translations.

Flat-out false.

The writers did use their original names. Translators didn't. Are you seriously under the impression that we have no pre-English copies of the New Testament scriptures or of Josephus's work?

Again, the "name game" you are playing is a complete straw man that reflects a lack of knowledge of the source material.

The writers/copyist did use his original name. English translators used modernized versions when translating. You are aware that the proper name "Jesus" and the proper name "Josephus" do not appear in any of the earliest copies of the works in question, right?

 

The fact of the matter is this is part of the many false stories, the many what if scenarios with one purpose only to discredit and make Jesus and his followers disappeared it has not been successful because facts, history and truths is not on the side of all these deniers of Jesus Christ.

If Jesus Christ is all a made up story a hoax a trickery for what reason would someone do that?
For someone to be able to successfully pull this trickery in such a grand scale it would mean the involvement of prominent people at that time and for what, what is it in for them i sit power, wealth, fame, godliness, immortality, to take down the Roman empire, to take down the Jewish elites?
There has to be a logical reason for carrying out such a hoaxed and so far no logical reason has been presented.

 

I meant "implicated not complicated" sorry grammar error.
If it was just written by some fiction writer then this would mean the Biblical characters such as the 12 Apostles their lives, ministry, and death as well as all the first generation Christians should also be just fiction?
IMO the Resurrection, God, Heaven, Hell etc. is comparable to scientific studies on the existence of a Black Hole, parallel universe, time travel, or search for intelligent creatures in other galaxies.
The only difference is that God has already been with us, events have happened while the Black Hole, parallel universe, time travel, or search for intelligent creatures in other galaxies are still being studied.

 

On the contrary for thousand of years all attempts to discredit these evidences have failed.
Deniers have failed to present any logical, practical or factual evidences to proof their case.

 

There is no evidence to discredit that is he point.

Atheists have no position which requires proof. The burden is on believers to prove that there is a god or that Jesus was real.

But in fact many pieces of evidence point to the story being fiction and absolutely no evixence of any kind exists to support the existence of a real jesus.

 

I think the fiction comes into play once claims of the miraculous are made. I have no reason to dispute the lives spoken of in the Bible as I know humans exist. But I am suspicious of the claims of the miraculous. I keep my mind open to the miraculous claims pending irrefutable scientific evidence or God manifesting before me and giving me the 411, but untill then I will remain skeptical.

The collective knowledge of humanity in the field of physics falls apart at the event horizon of a black hole. I don't think equating God to scientific hypothesis and theoretical physics is a way to make God real and tangible. Even if or when we solve they mysteries of black holes this will likely lead to new mysteries to be solved. I believe that if one does a regressive analysis of matter and energy one will inexorably arrive at an unanswerable question to be filled by the God of the gaps.

I read the claim but I see no proof to support it.

 

Where is all the trickery? All religions start simply with a few people believing in someone.and gathering followers. Get someone to believe in god and they'll believe in miracles.
No prominent people are needed. No reason to take down any Empire. Many religions believe wealth a hindrance, earthly power has no real meaning etc. etc. There was no need to take down any empire, or Jewish elites. True Christianity had to do with spiritual matters, not earthly matters. Only the Catholic Church has used earthly powers to control people.

Mohammed, Buddha, Zoroaster and others simply had followers who believed them - and things grew from there. The fact that what they said was down to their own thoughts, often sincere - but wrong.

There is simply no evidence that what the Gospel writers wrote is anything but what they wanted to think. If you believe in god he has to have supernatural attributes - like healing, walking on water, etc. Mohammed 'had' a 'night journey' to Jerusalem, spoke to Gabriel. Paul had a 'vision'. And since then people have had 'experiences'.

There are no facts with regard to the events of what happened to the body of Jesus. Just words in a book that you have been shown to be unreliable. All we can be fairly sure of is that a Jewish preacher named Jesus existed. No proof of deity.

 

For 99.999999999% of the worlds population your flat earth has already come to an end. The rest of us are circling quite happily on a globed.

 

Other than seeing them you mean.

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You.know that false and it has been proven to you.

You're just being immature about it now.

 

If anyone has ever seen them, they would be on camera. The only thing you will ever find is computer graphic imaging. And you yourself has never seen one, you just take peoples word for it.

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Yes, many have been deceived into a fantasy world, that has no existence whatsoever, what better way to take God away from the thoughts of men.

 

Wrong many galaxies can be easily seen through telescopes available to anyone.

And in fact they have been seen on camera they do not need or use CGI to capture them on film.

That CGI claim.of yours has been proven a lie as have all of your claims.

For such a Christian you lie a great deal