Indeed it may be that many new jobs are on worse conditions than previously. But arent you guilty of moving the goalposts now that your admitting that job losses have been recovered? In a time of low world demand for products and services what possible reason would there be for employers to take people on with enhanced packages? Surely the important thing is for people to have jobs? Or does that not matter anymore? Also, Im aware that the Recovery Plan was enacted in early 2009, a few months after which job losses bottomed out, then about a month after this bottoming, the stimulus money was effected. Anyway, this fellow purports that most studies say that spending worked;http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...n-the-subject/2011/08/16/gIQAThbibJ_blog.html
None of us wants high unemployment, Iriemon, but the Federal Reserve System (which really rules the economy of this country) is flat-out warning us that we will have high unemployment through at least the end of 2014: http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/17/politics/bernanke-unemployment-rate/index.html http://psbehrend.psu.edu/news-events/news/federal-reserve-official-predicts-more-unemployment This goes hand in hand with the spat you and I are having in a different thread over the GDP, which you attribute to "right-wing propaganda". Yesterday's big hooptie headline was that Obamanomics had created 171,000 jobs! Whoa! Who needs Viagra with news like that, right? BUT, what the hyperliberal news media didn't mention was that at the same time, the number of unemployed people increased by 170,000! So, the "net-net" is that we added 1,000 jobs? Don't cancel my Viagra order after all! http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/jobs_created_in_oct_unemployment_moDVXgpUYL2tNBq6dg1keK The unemployment rate actually went UP, not down! And you on the Left wonder why we on the Right don't believe anything that comes out of the Obama regime, or its bureaucratic sycophants concerning employment? I'll go down saying it to my last breath -- in the "new reality" of 2012, there is only one unemployment statistic that has any relevance: the "U6" Report! It ain't 1998 anymore, Iriemon! The U3 report is the "official" employment report for the last century -- not the one we're in now! For the benefit of those who only get their news from Obama's hyperlib media comrades, here are the FACTS, from the Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm Or is this report also a bunch of "right wing propaganda"...? You're smarter than that, Iriemon, and your command of factual material is better than that... I've seen you demonstrate your knowledge of facts too often here to believe that you're really buying the whole Obama/Bernanke/Geithner line of bull****. Think! Even the supreme insider-manipulator, Ben "Bailout" Bernanke, admits that nothing is going to get noticeably better for at least the next two years (assuming that Obama were to be re-elected)....
Weren't the older people retiring the reason for the drop in labor force participation rates? Guess not.
convert more full time jobs to part time jobs, lay off workers and let some of the remaining workers work 2 part time jobs. Then claim victory in the economy.
Government DID NOT create 5 million jobs. 5 million jobs have been created over the past four years. And 5 million jobs IS NOT a net number; last I checked there were 624,000 fewer jobs today...net. The stimulus and tax rate changes and FICA holiday are all temporary measures; the moment the government cash stops flowing most of the jobs go away. Maybe IMO government helped to create 500,000 jobs so divide this into $5 trillion and your cost per job increases quite a bit...try $10 million per job...hecka of a job...
Pollicy Even the data you point to through the BLS website shows improvement. While the Fed admits that whatever happens high unemployment is a long term fixture of our times. So what exactly is your beef? Is it that Obama says its better than it is and yet its so much worse in reality while Mitt Romney will be abble to reverse this? Is that what your saying?
What is my beef? Are you kidding? We're supposed to let the Federal Reserve crime syndicate and its handpuppet, "über-intelligent" Obama, brainwash us into believing that we can't do better than an unemployment rate of around 8% for the next two years, and, that the GDP is "doing fine" (as Obama puts it) at a stinking, anemic 2%?! I KNOW we can do better because I've seen it done! It took Ronald Reagan and a GREAT Federal Reserve Chairman, Paul Volcker, two years to get the economy straightened out, but, by midway in 1983 this country blasted off into much higher employment, with many more, higher-paying jobs, a much stronger dollar, and an inflation rate that went down into the very low single-digits for decades afterwards (after we had had double-digit inflation for years under Ford and Carter). Look back through our history and do you see a single time when we ever recovered from a recession with a GDP of 2%? It has never happened, and it never will. And all Comrade Obama can give us is more of the same government table scraps, his Welfare State sugar-teat, the monstrous tax increase of Obamacare, and an ever-weakened American dollar, and American nation.
Ok lets ignore the stupid hyperbole and get to your point; Arent you ignoring the fact that the current crash and resultant crisis is not a problem of correcting inflation? Arent you ignoring the fact that today we have had a financial crash and low demand? And isnt everything youve said after that about comrade obama, welfare teats, monstrous tax increases of obamacare just inane and shameful idiocy?
Why are you so picky about jobs? And since world demand is low, why would these jobs be full time? Oh and before you go on about the wider labour force participation rate, are you going to admit that participation has been falling since the turn of the century?
Really really simple folks. One word: MCJOBS. That's right, all these great jobs that Obama likes to 'sort of' take personal credit for when the UR number went down bc California 'forgot' to send in their abysmal UR number and then calls the number a "head wind" when the number goes up are stupid (*)(*)(*)(*)ing MCJOBS!!!!!! Why oh why can't some people grasp this FACT? BC they are Obama's 'Jonestowners' and they don't want to know the facts. If Obama gets to screw with America for another four years we will see an America that looks like rural China. Obama was elected because of 'White Guilt' and by a bunch of 'OJ jurors who were so mentally deficient they couldn't smell a poser when they saw him because he promised these 'Takers' free stuff. I mean if you had been a Taker all your life and someone with the same skin color as you stood up and read off his Tele Promtor that you didn't have to worry about getting your free stuff taken away if you voted for him who wouldn't waddle down to the polling booth and put your X on Obama?
OK, let's ignore your stupid hyperbole and get to your point.... Exactly what is it? You didn't really say anything, did you...? I didn't ignore anything, and I challenge you to identify anything that I said which was not factually correct. "Woulda, coulda, shoulda"... that's all we're getting from hyperlibs now. Ooooh, the mean old recession was worse than we thought it would be! So what did Obama do? He ran the national debt up to over SIXTEEN TRILLION DOLLARS trying to pump hundreds of billions into making a fraud-recovery. All it did was help the very sectors that hyperlib Democrats are supposed to hate! Investment bankers! The stock market! People who push worthless paper around from one banking cartel to another, and now with the extravagance of the Federal Reserve's dictator, Ben "Bailout" Bernanke decreeing that the Fed will buy FORTY BILLION DOLLARS IN TOXIC MORTGAGE-BACKED "SECURITIES" EVERY ****ING MONTH, FOR AS LONG AS HE FEELS LIKE IT! The honorable, competent Fed. Chairman, Paul Volcker, never did anything like that! Paul Volcker protected the value of the U. S. Dollar. He and Ronald Reagan, and intelligent, America-loving Democrats like House Speaker, Tip O'Neill pulled us out of a worse recession than this comparatively pissant housing market flop we've gone through. Yeah, you 20-somethings won't believe that, but you've never lived during a time when unemployment soared, wages were frozen, and inflation was skyrocketing. This setback the ****ing bankers caused five years is ago is nothing compared to the "Stagflation" recession of the late 70's and early 80's. Thank God that we didn't have some moron hyperlib clown like Obama pretending to be the President back then.... Oh, and Obamacare... in July of this year, stab-in-the-back "Justice" Stevens sided with Obama's goons on the Supreme Court and decided that Obamacare is actually a TAX. And, it will be the biggest tax increase this country has ever had, by far! That's not "shameful idiocy" -- that's a FACT! When fully implemented, Obamacare is going to set off a round of layoffs in small and medium businesses that will put even millions more of these helpless liberal idiots on welfare -- and keep them there! They're going to get exactly what they deserve -- government table crumbs and a Soviet-style "planned economy", administered by the Federal Reserve System and its handpuppet, "President Transparency"....
The Republican spin and deception on this issue is astonishing....but quite predictable too. Check out this chart below from The Federal Reserve Bank in St. Louis and ask yourself if this looks like a downward trend in job numbers to YOU? For reasons that have nothing to do with reality and everything to do with partisan election politics, Romoney and the rightwingnut media echo chamber would claim that this chart does show a job loss under Obama. So is Romoney right about job numbers declining since Obama took office??? Or is the context of what had been happening to the economy under Bush before Obama took office somehow important to consider if you want to actually understand the situation and not just score bogus political points??? Remember Obama came into office with the economy in the tank, the banking system and the auto industry about to collapse, and unemployment already skyrocketing* after eight years of Bush Admin. mismanagement that had taken the country from a $230 billion dollar surplus when Clinton left office to a $1.3 trillion dollar deficit when Bush left office. It takes a while to turn the economy around and recover after a train wreck like Bush left behind but quite obviously progress is being made on recovery. If the corrupt republican greed freaks and plutocratic power trippers get back into control, expect to see this chart in the coming years look even worse than it looks here in 2009. The ride will be a lot rougher than the Bush years. If Romoney and Lyin' Ryan win, expect to see more wars in the Mideast, huge gas price hikes, more tax cuts for the super rich and the corporations, higher taxes for the middle class and even the poor, more profitable (for them) destruction of the economy and exporting of jobs, a ban on legal abortion and suppression of the availability of contraception supplies and information, more assaults on everyone's freedoms and rights, more packing the judiciary with far right wing ideologues which means more twisting of the laws to favor the top 1% at the expense of the rest of us. Give Obama a chance and the recovery seen here will continue and grow stronger. Let's give him a majority in the House and a 60 plus majority in the Senate while we're at it and the things we need to happen to grow our economy and compete in the global market can get done without all of the organized Republican obstructionism that we've all seen for the last four years. The right wing has shown a willingness to see the country go down the tubes rather than let Obama accomplish anything. In spite of that, he's accomplished quite a lot. * "unemployment already skyrocketing" - FactCheck.org reports this: Repeated Job Loss Claim - Romney's claim that Obama "stood watch over the greatest job loss in modern American history" is also wrong, as we've noted before. The truth is more jobs were lost under Bush than Obama, and most of the jobs lost since he took office have now been regained. Since we wrote about this last year, the BLS has revised its statistics slightly for improved accuracy, as it does every year. The latest data show that "total nonfarm employment" (the standard measure of jobs) declined by nearly 8.8 million between its most recent peak in January 2008 and when the job slump bottomed out more than two years later, in February 2010. Of those lost jobs, nearly 4.5 million disappeared while Bush was president, and just over 4.3 million vanished during Obama's first 13 months in office. And since the job totals hit bottom there have been slow and steady gains, totaling nearly 3.6 million jobs. The total for March (released April 6) stood just 740,000 short of where it was in January 2009 when Obama was inaugurated.
Livefree, pretend just for a moment not every recession recovers. Oh wait, nevermind, every recession recovers. It's called economics. Obama has the worst recession recovery in history and added more debt in the process than anyone else ever. Any recovery occurring is happening in spite of stupid.
And "WE" did NOT even gain them back. Foreigners did. 2/3 of jobs created under Obama have gone to immigrants. Whenever we talk about "jobs created" we must always remember to ask "FOR WHOM" ? http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/31/two-thirds-of-jobs-go-to-immigrants/?page=all
Ignoring the jobs that need to be created just to stay even makes the numbers look good but it is simplistic and stupid to do so.
Ignoring the jobs that need to be created just to stay even makes the numbers look good but it is simplistic and stupid to do so.
Good post. The conservatives used to be able to show it like that, but now the total number of jobs exceeds the level it was when Obama took office.
Unemployment rate STILL horribly high and unacceptable, real rate above 10%. New job creation not even high enough to keep up with population growth let alone put the unemployed back to work. Labor participation rate lowest in decades and not improving. 23 million still out of work or underemployed. And no plan to get the economy going again. If the total number of jobs exceed the level it was when Obama moved over to the White House by 1 job your statement would be true wouldn't it? Would that be a mark of success?
Jobs growth is easier if you import them all. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/31/two-thirds-of-jobs-go-to-immigrants/
