Why would someone with a bunch of tattoos not want to hang around you? Now we are going in circles because it has already been discussed that some men take advantage of women no matter how much or how little they are wearing. Rape and abuse does not only happen to women dressed conservatively. Oh BS. Some men act as you described but not all. I married a woman who wears see-through tops... and I did not marry her because of how she dresses... I married her because she is the most loving and wonderful woman I have ever known. The fact that she is sexy as hell is just a bonus! But what is considered sexy is subjective.
People tend to hang around others like themselves. This is normal. I would agree anyone can be targeted, however my experience is that the ratio of a nun getting targeted over a girl in a slinky black dress, is a bet lop sided.... you disagree? Yes, any women, wearing anything, can be violated. But on average, do you really think that a man is not attracted to one over the other, and thus would make a choice on who to go after based on that? Now, keep in mind I am not trying to make a joke out of this, although I realize the pictures might elude to it. I'm simply asking, which group of women above, do you have an attraction to? Which one do you think an evil man who wants to rape someone, is going to be attracted to? Now again... I get it..... if you have an evil man, who wants to rape, and the only girls in the entire country are group B girls, then he will likely take what he can get. But given the choice..... which way do you think he's going to go? Be honest. Your statement is correct. "Some men act as you described but not all" I agree. There are some men that are 'somewhat' decent, that will be attracted to that. I'm just telling you from my own experience, 9 times out of 10, you dress like (insert whatever word you deem worthy here), and you end up with creepy guys. Yes, you can at random get an awesome guy dressing that way, and if a girl does, she should consider herself lucky, because when you dress with your breast flopping out, and you butt in a skirt 5 sizes too small, the vast majority of the guys running up to her slobbering all over themselves, are not thinking "Gee, I want a long, deep, personal life long relationship with this girl!".... most are thinking "DUR.... SCORE! GOAL!!!!!!" slobber slobber slobber. If you are the exception, great. Wonderful. More power to you. Don't think I am against you having a wonderful life and marriage, and all the good things that come with it. I am. Great! But that simply isn't the majority. Just look at the divorce rate.
I partly agree with you on the drinking & dress thing, not because it's right, it isn't. But drinking puts you in a position of vulnerability & skimpy clothing makes for easier access. One of the reasons that when I was young & drank, I preferred to drink at home. And while you might be PARTLY right about the guys you attract if dressing provocatively, I would not characterize them as men, but rather as boys. Such an attitude is incredibly immature & I would not consider (even in my late teens) have considered someone that immature to be relationship material.
I hear ya.... but they exist... and girls make bad choices all the time when it comes to that kind of stuff. if they are good looking enough, rational thought flies out the window. becuase lets face it, if pricks didn't get laid, we wouldn't be having this conversation. DO YOU know why guys are pricks to girls and take advantage? Because it's easier to get laid when you are a prick. Girls who dress this way are focused in on because 1. they are attractive 2. they are looking for attention both are qualities the "boys" look for because 1. attractive girls are every guy's fantasy 2. Guys can give a girl all the attention they want. I told girls all sorts of things they wanted to hear to get what I wanted. and again, I wasn't some super stud either. But towards the end of my single life.... I figured it out and I knew which girls to talk to in bars and which ones weren't worth my time and effort. The girls that garnered my attention were picked out for a number of reasons.... one of which was how they dressed. And I can tell you, taking them home was the goal, but taking them home to mom.... was not.
Getting into a relationship is a lot like interviewing for a job. You don't hire someone with a neckbeard or marry a girl you met that was wearing a really short skirt. We neckbeards deserve the same rights and respect that clean-shaven men in suits and ties get
Normal is subjective. For me its normal to hang out with a wide assortment of people... liberals, conservatives, rich, poor, different ages, different ethnic groups, different religions, atheist... etc. I do not limit my social interaction to only people like me. IMO not a fair comparison. A better comparison would be "a girl in a slinky black dress" and a girl wearing socially acceptable clothing in public. Lots of women are the victim of sexual assault, and many of them are dressed conservatively. As I am not a deranged sexual predator I am not qualified to make that determination. But again I say sexual assault is by no means limited to provocative women... lots of "properly" dressed women are sexually assaulted too... perhaps even more. I have seen no data that says scantly clad women are more often the target of rape than a conservatively dressed woman. Neither as I am married. Now perhaps other married men may think I am lying, but if a man is attracted to a woman other than his wife then something is wrong with man IMO. I married a goddess amongst mere mortals who I think is the most beautiful creature to ever walk this planet... so you see... compared to her the bikini girls are irrelevant. Again I am not a sexual predator... are you?! If not then how the heck do you know what a rapist will prefer. From the news reports I have read rapists are diverse in their targets. Do women who wear a berka get raped? Yes. Are there countries where some women wear a berka while others wear bikinis? Probably a number of countries in the middle east, especially those on the cost. In those countries do only the women who wear bikinis get raped... I doubt it. And if a woman "chooses" to be with a creep then that is her business. I have known many women who dress very conservatively who have attracted creepy guys. One gal I dated, a Christian conservative small business owner who dressed extremely conservative had a stalker who I had to go to the phone company to get him blocked from calling... he called every day and was creepy as hell. So what? Its a free country and most women I have known that dress provocatively understand that they will get a lot of attention from men looking to hook up. But when I was dating it happened a lot to conservative women too. Is life about following the majority? If so that seems to conflict with freedom. Which is worse... a woman who dresses provocatively or the man who objectifies, judges, or ever assaults her? IMO there is nothing wrong with the woman but something is seriously wrong with the man!
You would be one of an extremely limited group. Very few do this. Honestly, most don't even realize they do it, and will deny it even though its true. That's crazy talk. Men are attracted to women. Very few are "not" attracted to women, because they are married. If you are one of those, again, you are part of a tiny group. Count yourself lucky. Most men, by far the majority, are attracted to women in general, and being married doesn't magically make that disappear. You really need to accept the fact that not everyone is just like you. You are judging other men, because you are different than they are (assuming you are not lying). Sexual predators.... are men. Human males. They are no different than any other human male. The same human nature has existed for thousands of years. And further, I said this before.... I never suggest that no one dressing modestly, will ever be raped. Never said that. You are arguing against a point I never made. I said, do you think that the ratio of women targeted by bad men, would be higher for those who dress provocatively? Yes... or no. Answer? I think... yes. If you think no, that's fine.... I can't imagine that many men would agree with you on that. Men are visually stimulated by nature. If you really think that a would be rapist would be equally interested in the berka and the bikini clad, that's an interesting theory... but I doubt it. I find it odd that you would say that, given your position is the position of the majority. Obviously I have no problem not following the majority, since I'm the one bucking the trend. All of this can be summed up by "her choice". Again, I never suggested otherwise. So what? It's a free country. Never said otherwise. No one is suggesting we pass a new law on mandatory skirt length. No one suggested it wasn't a free country, or that it was not her choice. You are arguing a point that I never made. I'm not saying women shouldn't be allowed to do whatever. I'm saying there are consequences to choices. Doesn't matter if we have laws or not. Doesn't matter if it's a free country or not. There are consequences to choices. If government passed a law "There are no more consequences to choices!", there would still be consequences. I had a relative who was told by the doctor, if he didn't stop drinking, he'd die. He told the doctor off, kept drinking because "it's a free country and it's my choice".... he's dead now. 6-feet under consequences. Yes, women have a choice. Free country. But there are still consequences. I know a girl who made choices 3 times, over 7 years, and each time ruined her life. He ended up a mental basket case for 3 years. Had to go to counseling, to unscramble her head. Free country. Her right to choose. She choose, and ruined about 10 years of her life. One decade of her life, is nothing but misery and pain. Free country, her choice. I know a girl who dressed like she was an exotic dancer. She always picked up some guy somewhere, with her slinky dresses. I overheard her at work one day, decrying "you won't find any good guys in this town. They are all scum." Oddly, I knew of two guys in that very company, looking for good wives. They just were not interested in her, and the guys who were.... well... they were scum. The problem wasn't that there were no good guys. The problem was that where she was going, and the method she was using to find a guy, attracted scummy guys. Choices. I never told her "you can't dress like that!". Free country. Her choice. And Her consequences for those choices. - - - Updated - - - What's funny is, women constantly judge men they meet by how they look. If we dare judge them by how they dress..... well now that's sexist!
Is that your opinion or do you have evidence to support your position? FYI all I am saying here is my opinion based upon my perspective. I have never believed that all men are like me... a point of pride I must say. No, for the purposes of this thread I am judging only men who judge a woman based on what they wear. To me its shallow to judge one on the superficial alone. No. Do you have evidence to the contrary? From my reading of news stories some sexual predators seek random targets of opportunity while others target specific types. If a woman is judged in a negative way for wearing a miniskirt... who is to blame... the one judging or the woman being judged? I say the one judging is wrong. Indeed there are consequences and that is a two way street as a man who is shallow will have his own consequences to deal with. I am against bias. I am not a fan of Christianity and generally have a negative view of most Christians. I have some very good reasons for my bias but to apply my bias to all Christians would be wrong. To stereotype is wrong. To judge a woman only on what she is wearing is wrong. You can argue "its normal " all you want... but its still wrong. Just because something is the accepted norm does not mean its right... but then again in many cases what is seen as right or wrong is subjective.
we get it, noone is saying that conservatively dressed women will never get assualted or can't be bigger whores than girls in a tight short skirt. You are basing your arguments off of exceptions to the rule, while we are basing how we would raise our own daughters off of increased probability.... just like an interview.... people get jobs (probably in my career field, too) wearing bluejeans and flip-flops.... but those are the exception jobs and I would not DARE show up to an interview in anything less than a suit and tie... I'm playing the odds... When there is no upside on taking the chance of losing out on a job because I dressed too far down, why wouldn't I wear a tie. same with girls... sure, my daughter could wear a short dress and never get assualted sexually... but why risk it when you can look just as nice in clothes that offer a little more obstacles for a potential predator. Just like most car burglaries occur when a car is left unlocked. They are sometimes crimes of convenience and opportunity. Car locks won't stop a thief that has the intent to steal, but locks "keep honest people honest" just like conservative dress "prevents horny guys from making a poor choice"
we're not disagreeing.... I shouldn't have to lock my doors to my house at night.... Cars shouldn't have to come with anti-theft devices either. The world is full of "the way it should be" but the world, unfortunately, does not run on the ideal.... so yes, the guy that judges a girl by her dress is wrong.... but since you aren't going to be able to change how the world reacts to a girl in a short skirt.... what's the 'ounce of prevention' a girl can take to help her odds out to not get raped, assaulted? it's the same way perspective employees dress up during an interview to try and make an impression they want a perspective boss to have of them. this is the point you're missing. women should be able to dress any way they want and be treated the same. But this isn't reality. Sorry.
When a woman publicly displays her body, it's being done because she wants attention to be paid to her body by the public. She wants the public paying attention to her body because she's saying, "this body is open to the public." In contrast, a woman who covers up her body can and generally does display it selectively. This sends a very clear message that her body is available only to select people. In other words, slut vs. not slut.
So...you have PERSONALLY spoken to EVERY woman who wears a minisklirt, then? If not--yer bloviating! I know of one woman who wears a miniskirt in the summer simply because it's COOLER than shorts or a longer skirt!
I went to HS with a girl who was 16, but could pass for being in her 20's. She used her older (22) sister's ID to get into clubs...she even got pulled over once, and nobody ever knew it!
So is mine. And it's based on the statements by men who are married, and by marriage and relationship counselors, who work with married couples, as well as numerous books on the topic. Your statement is crazy. I never said it was not true for you. It might be. You need to get over the fact, most men are not like that. Same. And yet you do it. I know humans well enough to know that any human who says they 'never judge based on appearance', is a liar. Don't even try and tell me you don't. I won't believe you, because I know it's not true. Really. You seriously believe that in any given situation, that a man would target either of those two photos equally. Well... that's your opinion. I doubt that. Seriously doubt it. As for evidence.... I thought you would know. Antecedents of sexual victimization: factors discriminating victims from nonvictims. Synovitz LB, Byrne TJ., J Am Coll Health. Jan;46(4):151-8. (1998 ) An Examination of Date Rape, Victim Dress, and Perceiver Variables Within the Context of Attribution Theory Workman JE, Freeburg EW., Sex Roles, Volume 41, Numbers 3-4, 261-277 (1995) The effects of clothing and dyad sex composition on perceptions of sexual intent: Do women and men evaluate these cues differently. Abbey, A., Cozzarelli, C., McLaughlin, K., & Harnish, R. J. (1987) Journal of Applied Social Psychology, 17, 108126. Yes, of course there is research that suggests a positive correlation between the way a women is dressed, and sexual abuse. This is what many women simply want to deny. And you here, now, are denying. Now again, it doesn't say that women who did not dress provocatively will not be victimized. Didn't say that. Nor did I. It says there's a positive correlation. The line of "rape prevention clothing" from sly manufactures is a joke. There is no way to prevent rape. But again.... there *IS* a correlation. Even the third study, specifically says "Female targets were rated higher on sexual traits regardless"... yes. Regardless. Being a women alone, has this effect on a man. By the way, if I remember right, most of the men in the 3rd study, were married. And shockingly, they still found other women, other than their spouse, attractive. As I said, if you are the odd ball that doesn't, fine, but just remember, you are the odd ball. Most men, married or not, find women attractive. You are trying to assign 'blame'. There is no 'blame' in this. Is it your right to judge me in any way you see fit? It's your mind, is it not? Are you not allowed to have an opinion of me? Freedom works both ways does it not? Are we going to have thought police now, to exact justice on illegal thoughts? Again, the women is not doing anything 'wrong'. I never suggested otherwise. I simply said, that there are consequences to actions. That doesn't excuse anyone else for doing wrong things. Rapists.... should be shot. But on the other hand, people do judge based on looks. ALL people judge based on looks. Free country. She can dress however she wants. There will be consequences. There was a porn star who quit and tried to be a school teacher. The parents protested, and she was not hired. That's their right. It's their school, and their children. There are consequences to choices. That's how life is. That's fine. Ok it's wrong. Guess what? People are still going to do it. You can makes laws all you want, people are still going to do it. You can ban Christianity, what's that going to change? Most of the people I'm talking about, are not Christians. Pagans, judge people based on how they look. All the time. Every day. Whether you think it's wrong or not. Look.... you can live your life based on how thing 'ought to be', but you will end up a bitter old man, and nothing will change. I have learned in my short life on this planet, that whenever I push my expectations on how I think people ought to act, that I always end up angry and miserable. My experience. When I think others should be this way or that way, and everyone should be nice, and never gossip, and never betray their co-workers or friends.... shockingly... I end up disappointed. Why? Because that's not how people are. People are the way they are. They are never going to change. They are the same way they have been for thousands of years. If you want to be angry about it.... that's fine.... that's your choice. Free country, your right to choose. But I can promise two things for you.... one, you will be bitter and angry most of your life, and two, nothing will change no matter what you push. So, go for it.
Thank you. I fully agree that most people at sometime in their life have judged a person on their appearance .. however I also believe that it is something they are 'trained' to do by their parents and peers. As responsible parents should we not be teaching our children not to make the same errors in judgement that we are ingrained with. - - - Updated - - - First impressions rarely, if ever, reveal the true nature of the person being judged.
In other words, if some stinking muz says that no part of a woman's body, even the eyes, is to be "displayed" then all American nuns are sluts.
but when the world hires off of first impressions.... determine sexual interests off of first impressions.... it's pretty important.
Which is why I have said it is about time we broke the cycle of judgment that we pass to out children/
how arrogant are you to think that this is the generation that's going to change human nature. This is NOT a new thing. We didn't just START basing hiring, and sexual desires off of first impressions in the last 50 years.... People have hired based on appearances long before you or I, and no matter what we do, or how we teach our kids, humans will continue to do so well after we are gone and forgotten about. Or do you really think we can achieve that Utopian society no other peoples or nations has ever achieved prior in the history of mankind. If so, do you also think you are going to end war, too? How about racism? Until you can do all of that, all you can do is teach your kids not to judge as individuals, and to teach them that no matter how they are raised, people are still going to judge them based on superficial stuff like skirt length, how they dress, etc.
firstly it is not human nature, young children do not judge others based on appearance .. it is a learned thing, usually passed on by parents. secondly I have no illusions that a single generation can change this .. however it has to start somewhere. In order to achieve something you have to take the first step. War and racism could be confined to the history books, not in my life time and probably not for the foreseeable future .. but that does not mean it cannot be achieved.
I'm still trying to figure out makes a girl with tattoos not a good person to marry but great person to have a one night stand with lol
