konstantin and the christian religion

to all :::::::::::

i have noticed that there are many readers and posters of these religion topics.

but it seems to be hard to get a word in edgewise.

therefore i am starting a totaly new topic.

KONSTANTIN and the CHRISTIAN RELIGION.

i shall be posting a few questions from time to time.
perhaps some of you shall enjoy discussing these questions.

-1- ??? why did konstantin organize the official christian religion ???

vlad

 

Are we talking about Constatine the great?

 

It will be an interesting and educational thread it if isn't hijacked to buggery.

 

First you have to know that in his deathbed Constantine worshipped Apollo .

Constantine got into position to make a new religion out of scratch and form it as he liked , Roman emperors and Byzantines later had the priesthood under control and we are not talking about decentralised paganism but a very strict organisation that got to do as they are told by himself and those that followed him.
He and a bunch of guys chose the "books" and edited text to suit their needs , he placed himself only under god and and made all christians his subjects ( by the way you spelled Constantine i guess you are from a country related with the Byzantines so you know how this thing worked out ).

 

Absolutely false. Constantine didn't invent anything. In 312 AD, The Edict of Milan allowed Christians free worship, which means Christianity existed before then. Christianity was not made the official religion of the empire until Theodosius in 381.The books of the Bible where not chosen to later, after Constantine's death. The DaVinci Code is a fictional novel, not history. After the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, the Latin West refused to bow to the Emperor on religious grounds.

 

Not exactly !
First council of Nicaea - Constantine the first
Edict of Milan was signed by Constantine the first and it was about freedom of religion

 

Yes, but Constantine only summoned the Bishops together for THEM, not Constantine to figure out what to do with Arianism. The Emperor's main concern was unity. A divided Christianity meant instability for that part of the world.

 

Correct , he told them "solve this (*)(*)(*)(*) i want to rule and i want only this guy god to give me orders".
Then he read Paul who had no idea where the heck the tomb of Jesus was ( like it wasn't common knowledge ) and journeyed into the holy lands where he found 350 year old wood .

not in topic :Theodosios revoked the edict of Milan and proceed killing millions of people for not following abrahamist nonsense

Just admit that everything he did he did it for himself and "the empire" .

not in topic : I am Greek, we are taught those things in school's history classes

 

So, Constantine demoted himself from a God Emperor to an Emperor following God? How exactly did that favor Constantine? As everyone is equal in god's eyes, it brought the emperor down to the level of the common man.

 

Everything comes with the price , Costa's trick was that by placing himself under the god each and every christian convert was placing himself under Costas. It was a brilliant plan that Byzantine emperors used for the next 1000 years expanding their influence in distant countries well out of their reach.

 

to every one :::::
i am overwhelmed by so many replies.
and
i notice that perhaps we already have two old friends who have met each other on this thread and have perhaps resumed their old discussions. very good; please do enjoy yourselves. and do not EVER let that other guy tell all those lies about the history which you certainly do know and which you certainly do know so much better than he.
and
i hope to be agreeing and disagreeing with everyone of you as soon as i find more time to read and write.
and
??? have i ever known any of you on the old <pravda> chat line ???
vlad

 

here are the multiple choice questions; i find that we all think better in the multiple choice format.

question -1-
?? why did the east roman emperor konstantin decide to organize
(and practicaly start) the christian religion which still exists to this day ??

-a- because he wanted to be with G*D.
-b- because he was visited by an angel (with wings).
-c- it was a necessary part of his personal war of survival against the west roman emperor maximian.
-d- he saw a vision of the flying jesus in the sky.

question -2-
?? who were the major advisors of konstantin in selecting the jesus cults
as the basic material for his new religion; christianity ??

-a- he had no advisors other than the creator of the master of the universe.
-b- it was an angel with real wings.
-c- he called a special council of the clerics of all the major and minor religious cults of the time.
-d- he was visited by visions of the crucified jesus.

question -3-
?? how and why did so many clerics decide to respond to the call of konstantin.

-a- they were all the servants of G*D.
-b- they followed a magic star.
-c- the call of the emperor was enforced by the military and they were all afraid for their lives.
-d- they were all already christians with the exact same beliefs.

question -4-
?? who were the "three wise men" ??

-a- they were from the east.
-b- they were angels sent by G*D.
-c- they were ambitious clerics from already existant cults.
-d- they followed a distant star at night.

question -5-
?? but exactly who were these three wise men ??

-a- they were left over from another religion.
-b- they were angles from heaven.
-c- they were Athanasius, Arrius, and Nestor.
-d- they were devils straight from hell.

question -6-
?? what was the major result which konstantin wanted form the establishment of a new religion ??

-a- he wanted everyone to believe in G*D.
-b- he wanted peace on earth and good will to all men and women.
-c- he wanted to organize total obedience to the emperor; himself.
-d- he wanted to establish human rights for all the roman empire.

question -7-
?? what was a necessary part of establishing his new order;
his total social, political, and economic control of the old roman empire ??

-a- all the people of rome had to learn to read and write.
-b- he wanted peace on earth and good will to all men and women.
-c- he had to destroy the old city of rome.
-d- he had to make all the men learn to wear pants.

question -8-

??? please write this question yourselves ????

these questions are designed to stimulate discussion.
more later;

vlad

 

yes; certainly ; the very same emperor of rome.

vlad

 

i certainly do thank you for your good wishes.

vlad

 

i thank you for your comments, i would say that we basicaly do agree on this historic issue.

vlad

 

i can not agree with the comments in this posting. BUT, please do post some more.

vlad

 

to mr. mutmekep and mr. conservative ::::::::::::::::::

i thank you for your comments; i am trying not to choose sides.

i am already on my side; i am always on my side;
even if only i am on my side;
i always stand for me.

vlad

 

For those interested in the legend of Constantine, I'd refer you to the writing of Eusebius.

 

Budini, the answers are put in bold within your quote.

 

to mr. conservative :::::

you said ;;
"Constantine did not practically invent anything. Christianity had already existed long before him. In fact, it was so big in the east, that disagreements between Arianism and Christianity threatened the stability of the empire."

i claim, as i have learned from many free thinking historians, that before konstantin; christianity was a collection of cults. some of them gnostic and some of them literate.
some of them with a pagan originated jesus a (becoming prophet) cult copied from dionysis
and some of them with magician jesus (becoming pagan dionysis) cult copied from zoroaster.
and some of them with a crucified image (becoming pagan mithra) cult copied from spartacus.
but there was no centraly organized version of any of the christianity cults.

arrianism began after arrius left his agreable friendship with konstantin and found the support of the general lucinius and they formed an army to fight konstantin. but lucinius was defeated and arrius escaped to the visigoths. after that many barbarians accepted the arrian religion.
that may become an almost seperate topic.

the point is that the east roman emperor konstantin organized parts of all the contemporary religions of his time and which could be called "neo-pagan" and this organization united his army and government to place him in total control of the empire and the population of the empire.

vlad

 

to all :::::::::::::::::::::::

her is an example of the "other christian religions" which existed before constantine organised the first christian church.

<<<<<<<< http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljRKhZ81aqY&feature=related >>>>>>>>>

vlad

 

Good grief. What an ignorant question.

 

Constantine did not intorduce the 1st Church. The Church was already established thou maybe in disarray. There was already established a heirarchy we know the apostles replaced Judas Iscariot to act in his place. We also know when the question of whether gentiles should be circumcised came up, St. Paul went to consult the other disciples (the Church) it was something he was unsure of. There was gathering of all the disciples, this in fact could be called the 1st council. We also know that the disciples passed their authority on. How could the likes of St. Irenaeus write in defence of the Church in around 200 AD if there was no Church yet established?. We have historical evidence that the Church existed before Constantine ever came on the scene.

 

to crusader ::::::::::::

no; it is most certainly not an ignorant question. ?when may a question ever be actualy "ignorant"? it is only when the questioner is actualy looking for information which is not available. BUT; in this instant case; the questioner is trying to stimulate thought. AND; please do note (mr. crsader) the questioner has provided a multiplicity of choices for an answer. my questions are presented in the same format as the american-english educational system uses to test stdudents for their knowledge of specific subjects.

i was asking that question to give my readers the chance to think about this topic.

THEREFORE --- mr. crusader; i must ask you again in the essay question format.

??? why did konstantin organize the official christian religion ???

vlad

 

to sean michael :::::::::::::::

i disagree that there is very much which we actualy do know; because all of the evidence could be forgery, or just "hearsay" type of stories.

the "churches" to which you are refering are -- the marcionites; the ebonites; the donatusites, the arriusites, the spartacusites; and many others. yes there is constant referance to the church founded by one 'saul called paul'; this could all be a forgery of athanasius the former dionysian preist who organized the byzantian religion for the east roman emperor konstantin. * please do remember that after konstantin died, his son julian became apostate and first tryed to return the roman empire to the pagan religion (and returned to giving favoritism to the latin language over greek) and then invented another new religion which is remembered as "neo-platonism". most important of all julian actualy did persecute the officialy organized christian religion of konstantin and athanasius. after the death of julian his son justinian brought back the christian religion. the same religion which is today known as the eastern-orthodox church. BUT how ???? do we know that this was exactly the same religion with the same scriptures as the original religion of konstantin.

more later;
vlad