Luke 14:25-27

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Wolverine, Aug 27, 2012.

  1. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Only if they were Jews.
     
  2. Neutral

    Neutral New Member Past Donor

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    Of course, as usual, the atheist cannot make a delineation between war and atrocity. Cruxufiction being just a normal form of warfare, yet defending your home and family clearly atrocity ...

    And they say atheism is a logical thing, eh?

    Looks more like a desire to deliberately disregard fact just to bait other people to me ...
     
  3. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    It was against Jewish law for Jews to associate with non-Jews. Jesus followed the Jewish law. He never associated with Gentiles.
     
  4. Neutral

    Neutral New Member Past Donor

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    Sure it was ... that is why Jesus interacted with Romans ... because he was a law breaker.

    Maybe you should read. Seriously, why should anyone pretend that your comments reflect education?

    Jesus comes in fulfillment of Jewish Prophecy, and his first order is to Jews.

    However:

    "And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

    (Matthew 28:18-20)

    Such a law breaker.
     
  5. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    That's a misinterpretation. Jesus said that he was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He told his disciples to not go into the towns of the Samaritans and Gentiles. Jews were scattered from Spain to India and from the Black Sea to Ethiopia. Most of them had lost their Jewish identity and had been assimilated into the local populations. That command was for the disciples to go recruit the lost Jews into the new Christian cult. It was not to convert the Gentiles. That's something that Paul wanted to do.

    As Peter said in Acts 10:28 (NLT) = Peter told them, “You know it is against our laws for a Jewish man to enter a Gentile home like this or to associate with you....
     
  6. Neutral

    Neutral New Member Past Donor

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    Maybe you shoudl rea dthe whole Bible. What role Jesus fills evolves over time in the Bible, which is why Paul is able to carry forth his works of translation of the gospels in Greek and carry them throughout the world ... which seems strikingly at odds with a Jesus that doesn't care about gentiles.

    Of course, when your intent is dishonest, when all you do is seek to malign the faith as taught, but which of course you certainly know more about by completing ignoring the quote I just gave you - as usual with atheists - and then ignoring the contect that implies evolution in thought and role - also par for the course - as evolution is the favorte subject of atheists correct?

    Oh yes, what would us Christians know about our own faith?

    "Jews considered themselves to be God's covenant people; Gentiles were considered to be sinners because they were not part of that covenant people. But Jewish Christians recognized that God's judicial pronouncement that someone is part of the covenant people is not based on this Jew-Gentile distinction. The covenant is no longer conceived in nationalistic terms. Even though as Jews they claimed a privileged status, now as Jewish Christians they knew that only those who believe in Jesus Christ are justified, declared by God to belong to the covenant family."

    http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/Gal/Pauls-Personal-Affirmations

    Once again, what is it about atheism that makes them think taking their education from atheist web sites gives them an accurate view of our faith and history? I find such notions ... odd.
     
  7. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    You are forgetting some major facts.

    Paul was the first person to write about the Jesus character. He was preaching about Jesus in the 30s. He started writing about him in the 40s.

    Paul's disciples wrote the Gospels in the late 50s to the early 90s. This was during the time of the Roman sacking of Jerusalem and destruction of Judea.
    The Gospel writers didn't know Jesus from a rock. Everything that they knew they learned from Paul.

    The Gospel writers put their own spins on the Jesus character. The incorporated some of the events that the three main rebel leaders did under the Jesus umbrella. They changed them from purely political events into quasi-religious ones. In other words, they rewrote history.

    Paul was focused on selling his idea of a demi-god zombie who could "save sinners" and give them eternal life if they believed in him. Only crazy people want to live forever so he found fertile ground for his new religion.

    People are so brain washed that they are incapable of thinking about the fairy tale. All they want to do is to live forever. They haven't thought about if that's a good idea or what the consequences would be if it was possible. They are hard-pressed to cite one thing that Jesus supposedly said that's of any real value in how they live their lives. They certainly don't follow the commandments attributed to him.
     
  8. Sean Michael

    Sean Michael New Member

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    Luke 14:25-27 utilised the common Hebrew method of exaggeration or hyperbole.
     
  9. 4Horsemen

    4Horsemen Banned

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    This. you know Wolfverine well.
     
  10. 4Horsemen

    4Horsemen Banned

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    If your mom/dad is teaching you BS, and you find out later she was wrong, wouldn't you still be mad at her/him?


    But you hate accepting easy answers.
     
  11. 4Horsemen

    4Horsemen Banned

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    So why do people cry at funerals? why not break out the Keg and DJ and throw a party? Must be something about it that makes people unhappy and mournful.

    oh wait, there is something about it..YOU'RE DEAD GONE. NO MORE. ABSENT FROM REALITY. A GHOST. and NOTHING is waiting for you on the other side. that's it.

    but maybe you know something the rest of the world doesn't?


    Ok Genius, please enlighten us and tell us what's waiting on the other side of death so I can make the best decision if I want to live forever or die now.

    because If I was a Muslim I would want to die now so I can get my 72 white virgins.

    so this is important to know.
     
  12. Pasithea

    Pasithea Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Actually I know a family of a friend of mine who follow a strange sect of Christianity where they do not mourn the loss of their loved ones when they die, instead they celebrate that that person is now in the presence of God and Jesus. They will not cry or feel sad about that person's passing. It's very bizarre in my opinion, but also interesting to say the least. I wish I could remember the name of the denomination...
     
  13. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's called a Wake isn't it?
     
  14. 4Horsemen

    4Horsemen Banned

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    they must be from New Orleans. lots of wicked witchcraft mixed with Christianity down there.
     
  15. prospect

    prospect New Member

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    .........................
     
  16. prospect

    prospect New Member

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    Healing the Gentile
    Woman's Daughter
    Matt 15:21; Mark 7:24
     
  17. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    What's the point of that story?

    In Matthew chapter 10 Jesus told his Apostles not to have anything to do with Gentiles or Samaritans.

    In Matthew chapter 11 he flies into a rant against Jewish towns because they told him to take a hike. He condemned them to hell. He said that the Gentile and Samaritan towns would have repented if they had seen his miracles.

    In Matthew chapter 15 things are looking up and he's playing to large crowds. He decided to take a week or two off and see the sights in Tyre and Sidon. That's a long way from his regular neighborhood.

    So he's on his way to the beach towns in Lebanon and gets waylaid by a desperate woman looking for help for her demon-possessed daughter. The girl probably wanted to party instead of doing backbreaking work. Jesus ignored her pleas. His Apostles wanted to flip her off. After a while Jesus responded to her whining with some ethnic insults, calling her a dog and therefore unworthy of his notice. She kept it up and he finally relented and told her that her nutty daughter had been healed. She bought it even though the story doesn't specify that her nutty daughter was with her or back in her hovel in a cage.

    Jesus decides that since his trip had been ruined he'll take a mountain vacation around the Sea of Galilee. The next thing he knows every sickie in the whole area is at his feet so he has to crank up the magic curing tools. And to top it off he had to feed them!

    Now, based upon your religious education what does that story mean to you, if anything?
     
  18. Sean Michael

    Sean Michael New Member

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    I am not a scholar or a theologian, and my interpretation couuld be well of, but what it means to me at first glance is this. That salvation was not yet open to everyone. That only the Jews at this point are still the favoured race. However many Jews at this time have taken their God for granted and are only going through the motions and paying lip service. The woman recognised Jesus as the Lord and that through Him all people would be saved, for this he showed mercy on her. Jesus emphasis to the Jewish community that their was Samaritians and Gentiles behaving in away more pleasing to God than the Jews were. After the crucifixion salvation was open to all. And even in the afterlife Jesus takes those who were good but neccessarily Jewish to heaven.
     
  19. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    According to the Bible no one goes to heaven. It says that the only one who did was Jesus. After Judgment Day the old heaven will pass away and God will move into a 1,500 mile sided bejeweled golden cube with all of the "saved souls" on a new planet.

    The Jews accused Jesus of being a Samaritan himself. He never did answer them. According to the Old Testament the Jews and Samaritans would be unified.

    Jesus had earlier said that he was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. So why did he disobey his orders and heal the woman? Didn't he realize that he was committing a major sin by doing that? Did he give in to her pleas because he was tired and wanted to shut her up? He was trying to go on a beach vacation.
     
  20. prospect

    prospect New Member

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    The point is that the gentile woman wasn't a Jew and yet he loved her anyway.
     
  21. Sean Michael

    Sean Michael New Member

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    This once again is only my opinion. You are looking at time in the human sense. God is outside of time, everything is present to Him. The house of Israel no longer means just the Jews, the house of Israel is Christians. Also as a Catholic I belive there is a place of purification for those who did not die in grievious sin. So therefore Jesus the redeemer had already seen the woman recognised Him as the saviour so she was a Christian before there was Christians, if you get my meaning.
     
  22. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    There's no evidence that Jesus loved her. In fact, he insulted her.
     
  23. prospect

    prospect New Member

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    Healing her daughter was an act of love.
     

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