McCain hits Trump where it hurts, attacking ‘bone spur’ deferments in Vietnam

Well Im glad I could I could help you outbwith your free speech.

 

You have evidence they paid off the military doctors at the draft board?

 

It's amazing how those on the right who were to cowardly to serve can come up with these phantom HS injuries. Rightwing talk show host are famous for it and then in the next breath they will criticize someone who did serve.

 

If the military determines you are not fit to serve because a physical disqualifier that is not dodging. They would not take you even if you enlisted.

 

Who is the last President we have had who actually did serve in the military? If you do not count the National Guard we have the following:

Trump - no
Obama - no
Bush Jr - no (debatable)
Clinton - no
Bush Sr - Yes

So the last president we had that actually served was George H W Bush. It is so annoying to me that both parties constantly bring this up, whether it was Kerry, Obama or Trump, the argument is just getting stale.

 

If he was deferred by the draft board for a physical condition he could not volunteer and get accepted.

 

Why would you not count National Guard, you are insulting the millions who have served in the National Guard now. It was George W Bush who was the last President to serve in the military including his two years active duty service. And BTW he placed his life in danger every time he strapped on that F-102 Delta Daggar Delta-wing, single engine all-weather interceptor taking it out over the Gulf of Mexico in all conditions.

And before you go there

"The Air National Guard has often been ridiculed as a safe place for military duty during the Vietnam War. However, pilots from the 147th Fighter Interceptor Group, as it was called at the time, were actually conducting combat missions in Vietnam when Bush enlisted. Air Force F-102 squadrons had been stationed in Thailand since 1961 and South Vietnam since March 1962. It was during this time that the Kennedy administration began building up a large US military presence in the region as a deterrent against North Vietnamese invasion."
http://www.456fis.org/PRESIDENT_BUSH_&_THE_F-102.htm

 

Fair enough, my father was a part of special forces in the marines and he would make fun of National Guardsman all the time.

But, that is why I stated "debatable" because I knew some people would freak out over it.

 

The first draft dodger was Bill Clinton. Obama didn't serve. Service isn't a requirement.

 

Quite correct, the air national guard may have been a good place to hide if you were ground crew but not for pilots. It was amost certian that a pilot was going to Vietnam.

And it wasnt safe. Remember Top Gun? The Navy kill ratio at the time 3-1. That wasnt an exaggeration. The airforce kill ratio was even worse. It was about 1-1 at the time Bush enlisted. The F-102 and F-105 were greatly outclassed by the Mig-21 and their caugh *North Vietnamese* pilots were very capable. The only thing that saved Bush from Vietnam was the F-102, his plane, being replaced by the F-4.

For some perspective the infantry kill ratio in vietnam was 15-1. That should give some perspective on how dangerous being a fighter pilot was.

 

Did you ever get your knickers all wadded up over Bill Clinton dodging the draft and Obama not serving?

 

It would be quite naïve and possibly stupid to think that the sons of the wealthy were not "protected" by their parents wealth and power and influence...........

 

And the danger was just not flying that aircraft in Vietnam. It was one of the most dangerous supersonic plane ever flown by the Air Force with had incidence rates.

From same cite as above

"Such accidents were quite common even in peacetime conditions, which is not unusual for military aircraft whose pilots risk their lives on every flight. ANG members of the period who we've been able to locate indicate that only highly qualified pilot candidates were accepted for Delta Dagger training because it was such a challenging aircraft to fly and left little room for mistakes. According to the Air Force Safety Center, the lifetime Class A accident rate for the F-102 was 13.69 mishaps per 100,000 flight hours, and the rate was especially high during the early years of the plane's service.

This poor safety record may have been due in part to a deadly flaw in the aircraft's design that caused an engine stall and loss of control under a certain combination of angle of attack and airspeed frequently encountered during takeoff. According to a former F-102 pilot we've interviewed, this problem caused the plane to roll inverted and resulted in several fatal crashes. Numerous accidents were also encountered during landing because of the plane's high angle of attack and airspeed that reduced the pilot's visibility and reaction time. These factors have traditionally been two of the primary disadvantages of delta wing aircraft and explain why the pure delta wing design was later abandoned. Today's delta wing aircraft are typically equipped with leading edge extensions or canards that improve safety and performance. Luckily, F-102 operators overcame these deficiencies thanks to good pilot training and control lockouts that prevented the plane from reaching extreme conditions, and the F-102 went on to become one of the safer fighters of its day.

Regardless, the F-102 was still far more dangerous to fly than today's combat aircraft. Compared to the F-102's lifetime accident rate of 13.69, today's planes generally average around 4 mishaps per 100,000 hours. For example, compare the F-16 at 4.14, the F-15 at 2.47, the F-117 at 4.07, the S-3 at 2.6, and the F-18 at 4.9. Even the Marine Corps' AV-8B, regarded as the most dangerous aircraft in US service today, has a lifetime accident rate of only 11.44 mishaps per 100,000 flight hours. The F-102 claimed the lives of many pilots, including a number stationed at Ellington during Bush's tenure. Of the 875 F-102A production models that entered service, 259 were lost in accidents that killed 70 Air Force and ANG pilots."

 

So you have no evidence to back your claim as usual.

 

Just to be sure, we're on the same page

 

As I said,
FoxHastings said: ↑
It would be quite naïve and possibly stupid to think that the sons of the wealthy were not "protected" by their parents wealth and power and influence...........

 

As I said you have no evidence to back your claim as usual. Conjecture proves nothing.

 

Evidently not as much as MolonLabe did.

 

If a frog had a glass ass it would break every time he jumps. If, if, if, if.

 

Its not an if. The military is very very picky.

 

Like McCain said, Trump apparently got a doctor to write him a fake diagnosis to avoid service. That was common practice during that time.

 

Ahhhhh

McCain: I don't consider Trump to be a draft dodger
The former POW had appeared to criticize Trump for draft deferments with a 'bone spur' quip.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/23/john-mccain-trump-military-service-244058

BTW his draft number was 356 he would not have been called anyway.
http://www.historynet.com/whats-your-number.htm