McConnell caves-in on debt ceiling, giving Dems what they want.

I did. As long as $US is king, we are ok.
**** will hit the fan when that ceases. IMO.

 

We are now at 126% of GDP. At what point will the interest on the debt severely cripple the US's to pay it's deficit?

 

I think that the whole "middle-of-the-road" concept has changed noticeably over the past thirty years (being an old guy, I've watched this transition closely for a long time). Being in "the middle" has become more complex also, often with a person developing fragmented points of view on different topics, and those tend to span a wider gulf of conviction. To mash all the 'air bubbles' out of it, what I'm suggesting is that the "middle-of-the-road" of the 1960's, 70's, 80's, and 90's is no longer what it was -- and it's become fragmented and complex, too.

A person might have very liberal views on one topic, and very conservative views on a different one. And perhaps it's this dissonance inside the same person that makes it more and more likely that people like you and (yes) me find it impossible to be "Democrat" or "Republican".

It's ironic, isn't it, that we (and I do mean "we" -- both of us) who think of ourselves as "middle-of-the-road" should feel so often like political outcasts, but the only alternative is to become one variety or another of 'absolutist-fascist', such as we see today. This is a dynamic that is startlingly reminiscent of the political landscape of Germany during the dying days of the Weimar Republic, and we both know how THAT ended.

And, slightly back on topic, Mitch McConnell's behavior with regard to caving-in to Schumer and Pelosi on this 'debt-ceiling' spectacle also reminds me, disgustingly, of the behavior of too many of those "middle-of-the-road" German politicians in the Weimar Republic who waffled away their democracy and allowed an undemocratic autocracy to take over....

 

America's national debt is getting to WWII proportion

 

I don't know. We've been higher.

Did you call out trump people the last 4 yrs for adding to this debt you are so concerned about?

Not many did. It's only an issue when a dem occupies the WH. Even for the R party.

 

It was raise this politically motivated debt ceiling or defaulting on our bills.
A far worse consequence of we default. Worldwide.

 

Realistically, everyone knew we were going to raise the debt ceiling and "kick-the-can". After all, it's what we've always done for many years.

What McConnell should have done, then, if he hadn't been so cowardly and STOOPID, is use this rather common, annual situation to deprive Democrats of their "doomsday" weapon to drive through their $3,500,000,000,000.00 "Welfare-lite" smorgasbord.

McConnell failed, the debt ceiling was raised anyway (as anyone with any sense knew it would be), but now these wanna-be socialists are free to run wild with the biggest 'blank check' in history because their 'nuclear option' remains intact....

 

You knew it would be raised and complain it was raised?
McConnell did the correct thing.

 

https://www.longtermtrends.net/us-debt-to-gdp/

We were close to the high in 1946 right after the war and right before our economy took off. So you end up lumping me into those folks who are only concerned about the debt when a Democrat is in office? Generalizing people is a chicken **** way of trying to win an argument.

 

My dear Dairy... no.... I wanted McCONNELL to force the Democrats to do it -- and -- at the same time -- lose their 'nuclear option' ability to muscle-in their THREE AND HALF TRILLION DOLLAR WELFARE PACKAGE! If I haven't made even that much clear, then one of us ain't speaking English. Wanna try German instead...?

. "We lost two world wars in a row but we're still smarter than McConnell!"

 

Not trying to win an argument.
Debt is what it is. Neither party is too concerned.
And we voters don't care. Not going to lose sleep over it.

 

As a true party loyal would want

Party over country.

 

. One...last...time: I'm no more a member of any political party than you are.

McConnell made an indefensibly STOOPID, strategic blunder! And nobody knows or enjoys that more than the hyperliberal Left (which you have no affiliation with... right? )

 

You say that and rail how bad McConnell was for putting country over party.

 

Know this, if nothing else, Dairy... if McConnell had stuck to his position and refused to cave-in, Schumer and Pelosi would definitely have used their 'nuclear-option' to jam through an increase in the national debt level! But by taking the slinking coward's way out, McConnell has allowed these neo-socialist Democrats to preserve their 'doomsday' weapon -- and you may also be certain that after they decide among themselves who is going to get how much, they'll use that weapon to drive as much of their $3,500,000,000,000 monstrosity down taxpayers' throats as they can!

Nothing (NOTHING) about any of this is 'patriotic', Dairy... nothing! The only truly patriotic thing we could have done is to cut spending and NOT increase a 'debt limit', but that's beyond imagination for a corrupted, deranged government of the kind we've been cultivating in the U. S. for many years, thrown together by the same Democrats and Republicans that you and I both disdain... right?

 

So, as a so called non partisan, you want one party to suffer over the other party. And don't care what is good for America in general That is not independent, that is party over country.
That's where we disagree. Defaulting is definitely unpatriotic. And you assume the Dems would have done the nuclear option instead of saying the R's put party over country.
McConnel knows the deal, he would not have caved if he is holding the cards. He is always party over country.

 

But who benefited from McConnell's acquiescence? Pelosi, Schumer, and the rest of the neo-socialistic clot of radical, America-hating slime bags!

What 'noble', patriotic thing is there about THAT...?!

 

AMERICA. And the people we borrowed money from benefitted.


That you want to make it all about a party is showing party over America is what you want.

 

Take 15 minutes and go over an enumeration of a lot of the neo-socialistic crap that is part of the Democrat (yes, Democrat) THREE AND A HALF TRILLION DOLLAR SPEND-A-THON, and tell me that it's for "AMERICA". It's about "party", Dairy, because it's the DEMOCRAT PARTY that's pushing this monstrosity on a population of taxpayers who actually earn their own living and pay their own way in life.

McConnell hoped that by giving Schumer and Pelosi and the Democrat mob what they wanted, he could let Democrats fight each other over the 'spoils' and determine which bunch of them would get the biggest part of the biggest 'bank robbery' in the nation's history. Instead -- wait and see -- McConnell will find out instead that every Democrat has a price -- and we've seen similar slime-bag susceptibilities among RINO Republicans in the past, too!

What we'll see in the coming weeks is that even supposedly 'conservative-ish' Democrat Senators like Manchin and Sinema have their price, and, given enough 'incentive' and ass-kissing by Democrat leaders, they'll decide to "do-the-right-thing".... .

Thanks, Mitch, for handing this neo-socialist cabal a gigantic, cake-and-eat-it bonanza when YOU threw down your weapons and ran for the door!

 

That isn't the topic. The topic was about raising the debt ceiling.

 

Yeah, I know what the thread topic is... I'm the one who started it. Go back the beginning and take a look at my OP....

Funny how you shifted your line about how all these venal ploys are "patriotic" and those who disapprove advocate "party over country", and now want to quibble about what the thread topic is...?

And meanwhile notice how the Democrat leadership have already started schmoozing Manchin! This is all as predictable as flies on dog manure....

 

Both parties deficit spend when they are in power. I still remember Trump running up the deficit to almost 2008 recession levels during an economic boom when there was lots of tax revenue. Its time to stop pretending that you care about the deficit when the other guys are in power.

 

And here we go with "Trump, Trump, Trump" again....

I'm focused on the dull-witted, cowardly actions of MITCH McCONNELL, in THIS exact situation, in 2021 -- not the histrionics of Congress for many years in the past.

 

You missed my point. Trump is just part of the problem. Since the 90s everyone of both parties has given up on responsible spending when they gain power. At least the democrats are honest about it and never claim they believe in it.

 

Definately got that right .. but this has been the case for decades -- Today's GOP hates the principles of republicanism - and they love to spend money even more than Blue up until Biden - who has pulled out all the stops.

When people are forced to take a jab - I think we can say were are a little further down the road of Authoritarianism than "Socialism Lite".