'Nazi Grandma' sent to jail again for Holocaust denial

Sorry, I cited an obsolete link since truthful sites exposing Holocaustian frauds tend to either "disappear" or are censored.

Try:


EXPOSING LITERARY AND DOCUMENTARY FRAUDS ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/mcclelland/frauds_exposed.html#
FRAUD No. 10
The Jewish Holocaust

THE GREATEST HOAX IN HISTORY

ALEXANDER McCLELLAND

NX732 A.I.F and
Concentration Camp Survivor WW11
With the false claim that the Germans murdered six million Jews, mostly in gas chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau in Poland during WWII, since the end of WWII, the world has been saturated with films, documentaries and books on the Holocaust.

Anyone worldwide who dares to investigate the Jewish Holocaust claims, is branded an Anti-Semite and Holocaust Denier.

In our democratic world, a person who is accused of a crime is deemed innocent until irrefutable evidence proves them guilty.
What has happened to democracy in Germany, Poland, France and Switzerland where people accused of Holocaust Denial are not allowed to provide any evidence that would prove that they are not guilty?

In the Middle Ages, people accused of being witches, were also allowed no defence and were burned at the stake. As burning at the stake and crucifiction is not allowed in today's world, the best that the Jewish leaders and holocaust promoters can achieve is incarceration where no one can hear claims backed by years of very thorough research.



The Jewish success in blocking my book "The Answer Justice", their failed attempts to stop the book "Chutzpah" written by Norman Finkelstein whose mother and father were held in German concentration camps, the incarceration of revisionists Ernst Zundel and Germar Rudolf in Germany and David Irving in Austria: these are all desperate attempts to end what they call Holocaust Denial.

This letter can now be found in Alexander McClelland's book "The Answer Justice"

Dear Sir / Madam,
My name is Alexander McClelland I am an Australian veteran of WWII, a TPI (Totally and Permanently Incapacitated) and a survivor of a Concentration Camp.

Aged 19 I volunteered for the AIF and fought as a Bren Gunner in 2/1 Infantery Btn in North Africa, Greece and Crete where I was wounded and captured by German forces. I spent the rest of the war as a POW but due to my many escape attempts I was finally put into the TEREZIN Concentration Camp close to the Theresienstadt Ghetto in Czechoslovakia.

I have recorded my experiences in an autobiographical book entitled : 'The Answer -- Justice'. In 1965 I was featured in an award winning but historically inaccurate Australian television documentary on Theresienstadt called 'Where Death wears a smile'

I don't receive my TPI Pension because of the heavy wounds I received in the battle action on Crete.
I get my TPI Pension because of the inhumane treatment I received in the Concentration Camp.

It is a mistake to believe that the Germans had enough spare manpower to staff and run the concentration camps. The Germans only ever guarded the outer perimeter of the camps, we Prisoners hardly saw German soldiers, so it was not the SS or German guards that beat me up daily.

No, the daily beatings that left me totally incapacitated, came from two fellow Prisoners called KAPOS.

Kapos (or Camp Police) had extra priviliges, such as their own room and they also had power, For example the Power to say who got to visit the Camp Sick Bay or the Camp Brothel, and because of the absence of the very disciplined Germans, these Kapos even had the Power over Life & Death.

The two Kapos that beat me daily, using a heavy wooden baton they called 'Herr Doktor' (The Doctor) were both fellow Prisoners, both were Jewish, one from Hungary and the other was, I believe, a Ukrainian. I was often witness when they dragged other hapless prisoners from their cells onto the 'Appelplatz' and beat them to death with 'The Doctor'.

So whenever I meet a ' Camp survivor' now, I look him deeply in the eyes to see what sort of a 'survivor' they are ... whether they were really a Prisoner just like me, or whether they were one of the many 'Privileged' ones who survived the war being more inhumane to other Prisoners than the Germans ever were.

As a matter of fact, it was a German SS Soldier who saved my life after the Kapos, who after beating me sent me outside the camp on a work detail, with a dangerously poisoned leg. The SS Soldier walking by, saw my mates helping me, came over and then gave me his medical kit.

I now look deeply into the eyes of the 'survivors', because I know that not all Concentration Camp survivors were innocent victims I know that a lot of the Prisoners were brutal and inhumane criminals.

The world has never been told the whole truth about what life in the Camps was like. All we ever hear or read in the media is , how bad the German guards were and how badly they treated their Prisoners. I was in more than 8 POW Camps and a Concentration Camp, so who would know the truth? Me or the Media!

sincerely
Alexander McClelland 
PO Box 887 
Toronto NSW 2283 
Australia.



Mr. McClelland's account supports what I have claimed throughout this thread, mainly that the Germans didn't have the manpower or resources to put into practice a "Final Solution", aka "Holocaust®" for which no master Plan exists:

“To the present day a written order by Hitler regarding the destruction of the European Jewish community has not been found, and, in all probability, this order was never given.”
- Walter Laqueur, Was niemand wissen wollte: Die Unterdruckung der Nachrichten uber Hitlers Endlösung (What Nobody Wanted to Know: The Suppression of News About Hitler’s “Final Solution&#8221, (Berlin-Vienna, 1981), p.190

Additionally, no one on this thread or related ones has been able to refute the information related via British intercepts of German Radio Transmissions:



EXCERPT “In 1941, British Intelligence analysts cracked the German “Enigma” code. This undermined the German war effort—but also threw new light on day-by-day events in the Nazi concentration camp system. Between January 1942 and January 1943, encrypted radio communi-cations between those camps and the Berlin headquarters were intercepted and decrypted.

Oddly enough, historians have largely ignored the information furnished in these intercepts relating to “arrivals,” “departures,” recorded deaths and other events at these camps.The only reasonable explanation is that the intercepted data contra-dicts, even refutes, the orthodox “Holocaust” narrative.

The information does not expose a program of mass murder and racial genocide. Quite the opposite: it reveals that the Germans were determined, desperate even, to reduce the death rate in their work camps, which was caused by catastrophic typhus epidemics.”CONTINUED[1]


While some indoctrinated Holocaustians maintain that a "Final Solution" was drawn up at what is falsely represented as the Wannsee "Conference" / Meeting, even respected scholar Yahuda Bauer debunks that claim as a bunch of "silly stories"

“The Wannsee Conference: Another Lie Crushed”
http://barnesreview.org/the-wannsee-conference-another-lie-crushed/

EXCERPT “ In reality, the Wannsee meeting and its minutes do not contain a master plan to kill Jews;

– Nowhere in the meeting’s minutes is genocide discussed, planned, proposed, or even suggested;

– The Wannsee meeting never discussed gas chambers, shootings, or any of the fantasies propagated by the exterminationists;

– The Wannsee Minutes reported that there were only 4.5 million Jews under German control (yet 4.3 million Jewish compensation claims have been lodged against the postwar German government);

– The Wannsee meeting was a planning meeting on how Europe’s Jews should be deported, via transit camps, to the East; with able-bodied Jews being forced to build roads and other labor intensive tasks in those regions;

– The Wannsee Conference also made allowance for specific exceptions to Jewish evacuation, such as Jewish German World War I veterans; ALL Jews over the age of 65; and ALL Jews working in industries vital to the German war effort, to be released from the threat of evacuation and be allowed to stay in Germany.

As long ago as 1992(!), Bauer, speaking at a conference held in London to mark the fiftieth anniversary of the Wannsee meeting, told the audience that the claim that Wannsee was a “master plan” to kill Jews was nothing a but a “silly story.”
Bauer’s remarks were reported in the Jewish Telegraphic Agency of January 23, 1992, and the Canadian Jewish Times of January 30, 1992

There is therefore, no justification for the allegation that the Wannsee Conference was a ‘master plan for mass murder’ and everyone who claims this to be the case, from Netanyahu down, is simply lying.” CONTINUED


Just as Copernicus etc were persecuted for refuting a myth that "everyone knew" (i.e. the earth being at the center of our solar system), those who debunk the traditional Holocaust® narrative of today are persecuted by supporters of what Norman Finkelstein calls the corrupt & fraudulent "Holocaust Industry"

For example:

“Where did the Shoah money go?”
12.10.2006 | YnetNews.com
by Michal Grayevsky, Oron Meiri

EXCERPT “First Class flights around the world, accommodation at deluxe hotels, dining at fancy restaurants and a series of credit cards, this is how the Claims Conference, which deals with restitution of stolen Jewish property from the Holocaust, operates."CONTINUED

AND

“Allegations of Fake Holocaust Claims Just Keep Growing”
http://forward.com/articles/138473/allegations-of-fake-holocaust-claims-just-keep-gro/#ixzz3NUjH4LEg

EXCERPT “Although fewer than 20 people have been charged, the Claims Conference has identified about 4,800 claims it believes to be fraudulent. Bukh said he represented six people, including one “recruiter” and a handful of people who had not been arrested but who are co-operating with the FBI in the hope that they will not be charged. “We don’t anticipate any trials,” Bukh said.”CONTINUED


In spite of the fact that, literally, Billions[2] of people around the world reject the many myths around what has come to be known as "The Holocaust®", including Mrs. Haverbeck, a handfull of Western "democracies" still persecute those who refute the myths or "6 Million Jews", "Gas Chambers" etc.



Thanks


[1] “THE HOLOCAUST NARRATIVE” by Nicholas Kollerstrom
https://www.scribd.com/document/282721687/Breaking-the-Spell-the-Holocaust-Myth-Reality


[2] ”THE WORLD IS FULL OF HOLOCAUST DENIERS”
http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...he-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/

 

Thanks, Grau, for the link, which shows incredible stories from survivors. It makes me wonder, why they publish such unbelievable tales that will only diminish the credibility and honesty of the narrator as well as putting the entire holocaust into question.... shooting themselves in the foot, so to speak.
The amazing thing is that these stories are taken seriously and payed for by the shoa promoters.
One thing, though, has happened... I recently saw they reduced the number of deaths in Auschwitz to 1,500.

On my wanderings I came across an article in German, which I would like to share with you and the unbiased institute, plus anybody else who can read German:

https://killerbeesagt.wordpress.com/2016/03/15/auschwitz-und-die-gaskammern/

This guy explains at length how it would be impossible in Auschwitz to have gassed millions of camp inmates. Among his reasons is this last one...

"Man würde also rein logisch erwarten, daß sich eine Gaskammer nicht innerhalb eines Arbeitslagers befindet, sondern weitab, auf freiem Feld.
By logic one would expect that the gas chamber wouldn't be located within the camp but far away in an open field.

Doch selbst da besteht immer noch das Problem mit den vergifteten Leichen, die man nur unter Schutzmaßnahmen berühren kann.
Even there we still have the problem of the poisoned corpses, which can only be handled with safety gear.

Vergleicht man den Aufwand, die die Tötung mit Gas mit sich bringt, mit anderen Arten des Massenmordes, so ist sie mit Sicherheit die aufwändigste.
If one compares the energy and expense expanded to kill with gas with other methods, so is gassing the most costly.



The corpse removers would and should fall over dead when entering the chamber or touching a dead person.

 

Why was Eichmann sentenced and hanged in Israel while his crime was committed in Germany and he is a German national, or was at the time?

Why is Ursula being sentenced and the Jewish guy named Morel, who brutally murdered hundreds or thousands of Germans AFTER the war in Poland, not being punished?

Can your logic see the favoring of the brutal one and the senseless punishment of the other, the gentle one?

The world is crazy! There is no justice. True justice can only come from a higher authority.

Have a nice day!

 

What does that have to do with Haverbeck? Only two people have ever been tried in Israel.

Becaue she committed an offence against the law in Germany

Salomon Morel? He's been dead for a while.

Nope.

I agree this forum is full of them

God? Well I'm sure if you type a sternly worded letter then I'm sure he'l do something.

Have a nice day!

 

I don't know how noteworthy it is that the drawing that appears in your Post appears to be of the Soviet style & the guard / soldier's weapon looks like the popular & prolific PPSh-41.

I'm glad you found that link useful but apologize for the apparent censorship / removal of Alexander McClelland's letter from the site in which he remarks on the lack of "disciplined" German manpower to run the camps & relates the fact that it was cruel, Inmate Kapos who were responsible for most all of the barbarities.

It is not surprising that he too makes no mention of "Gassing" at any of the 8 Camps in which he was interred.

Additionally, anyone educated in the realities of early 20th German history would know that Germany lacked the raw materials & functioning infrastructure to both fight a 3 Front War AND transfer, house, treat, feed, re-transfer & then execute "6 Million Jews", via the most costly & labor intensive means possible.

The ways in which Holocaustian dogma belies common sense are so innumerable that even the 8th Graders I cited [1] before indoctrination could see through what allegedly educated adults either cannot or will not.

There is a saying that: "Just because you have silenced a man, does not mean you have converted him".

I strongly suspect that there are far more so called "Holocaust deniers" (aka educated, truthful & independent thinkers) than is commonly known or even revealed by the ADL study I cited [2] partly because a reason cited by Kollerstrom (below) and because most educated people realize that the Truth doesn't abhor the sunlight of honest examination while a Lie can only survive under the dark protection of State mandated censorship.


“The fastest way to get expelled from a British university is by (*)saying you are looking at chemical evidence for how Zyklon was used in World War II, with a discussion of how delousing technology (*)functioned in the German World War II labour camps”
(*)—Nicholas Kollerstrom


Thanks




[1] “ District’s ‘critical thinking’ assignment led at
least 50 students to conclude Holocaust never occurred”

http://eagnews.org/shock-districts-...tudents-to-conclude-holocaust-never-occurred/


EXCERPT “RIALTO, Calif. – An eighth-grade English assignment that was meant to develop students’ critical thinking skills has, instead, created some 50 new Holocaust deniers.


2,000 eighth-grade students were given an in-class essay assignment in which they were asked to consider if the Holocaust was “an actual historical event” or if it might have been “a propaganda tool that was used for political and monetary gain.”

Students were directed to “research” the issue and take a position on it, supporting their conclusion with “textual evidence” – printouts of information culled from three websites, one of which was a Holocaust denial site.

When news of the assignment broke, Rialto Unified school officials attempted to soothe angry community members by stating that none of the students actually argued that the Holocaust did not occur.

But an investigation by Los Angeles Daily News proves otherwise.
The Los Angeles Daily News asked for and received copies of the student essays, and had staff members read through them. The staffers found “at least 50 essays (that) denied or doubted the Holocaust occurred.”

“Even many students who agreed the Holocaust occurred said there were good reasons to believe it had not or that elements of the historical record were actually hoaxes,” the Daily News reports.


One student declared there was no way the Holocaust occurred because the Nazis “would have had to have killed 187 people an hour in order to kill 6 million people. Therefore it is impossible.”

One student wrote that if the Nazis “would have even experimented these so called gas chambers the Nazis would have died also, so I do not believe in gas chambers.”

Another made a similar argument: “if gassing would have occurred everyone (nearby) would have died, because the floors had cracks in the floor and holes in the wall.”

Still another asserted “there is no significant cyanide traces in any of the alleged gas chambers. So any open minded person can easily be persuaded to believe that the gassings were a Hoax.”

Rialto Unified officials have apologized for the assignment and pledge that it won’t be used again. The southern California district also attempted to undo some of the damage by sending its eighth-graders to the Museum of Tolerance.”CONTINUED


[2] “Did the Holocaust Exist? Scary Number of People Say 'No' or Not Even Aware”
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at...ary-number-of-people-say-no-or-not-even-aware

EXCERPT “Half of the people in the world have never heard of the Holocaust, ADL found.

And in the other half – the ones who have at least heard of the Holocaust and the truth that Adolf Hitler ordered the deaths of 6 million Jews – a third of this group simply did not believe the Holocaust happened. To this group, the Holocaust is a lie, a myth, a hoax, a conspiracy by those with a political or ideological agenda.CONTINUED

 

I admire the denialist's depth of tenacity which can only be matched only by the depth of their intellectual bankruptcy.

 

In reference to your unattributed excerpt from some Hasbara Handbook you're ashamed to name:

- None of arguments set forth by truth tellers in this thread have ever been "blown to smithereens"

- Your #18 is simply slanderous name calling as exemplified by Hasbara Trolls:
"14. Classic insults: Anti-semite, Neo- Nazi, White Supremacist, Holocaust denier" (from list below)

“A Guide To HASBARA(*)TROLLS”

https://whitewraithe.wordpress.com/a-guide-to-hasbara-trolls/

Hasbara Troll attributes
1. Supreme point of view
2. The Hasbara troll knows best
3. Condescending & Patronising
4. Socialist (Smart and ‘caring&#8217
5. Do not have to be Jewish but Pro-Israel
6. Internet experts
7. Narcissistic
8. Provocative
9. Dis-ruptive
10. Like to ask the questions, not answer questions
11. Control freaks
12. Inflamed by anyone being critical of Israel
13. ‘Moral’ Guardians
14. Classic insults: Anti-semite, Neo- Nazi, White Supremacist, Holocaust denier
15. Adept with social networks well trained on IT


This thread is about the struggle to relate a truthful version of WW 2 & the widespread suffering endured by millions of innocent people throughout the Europe.

While I may not agree with all of Frau Haverbeck's beliefs, I strongly support her right to express those beliefs.
If standard Holocaust® dogma were truthful, it wouldn't need repressive & undemocratic censorship laws to keep it alive.

 

I agree by definition truth tellers arguments are the truth and can't be blown to smithreens. The truth is simply the truth. OTOH, the bullcrap nonsense and complete denial of truth that is demonstrated by denialists in all their intellectual dishonesty have been blown to smithereens, repeatedly and in minute detail.

You appear to not understand the meaning of the word slanderous. If it's true it ain't slander.

You really think that people who view your ideological position with contempt, scorn and derision because of its demonstrated intellectual bankruptcy, intransigent ignorance and supreme bigotry, are all hasbara trolls?

Pretty damn pathetic list there, but considering its source, I am not surprised.

No it isn't. A truthful version of the holocaust is well established fact. The widespread suffering of millions of innocent people throughout Europe during and immediately after ww2 is incredibly well documented. Perhaps you should visit a library - I think you'll find a book or two on the subject in the history section.

Are you familiar with the term logical fallacy? What am I saying - of course you are considering that's about all ya got.

 

Your inability to refute a single fact I have posted throughout this Thread speaks louder than all the flaccid insults you can contrive.

Either disprove SOMETHING I've posted, get On Topic or quit harassing me with your puerile, Fact-Free Baiting & go away.

 

Oh gimme a break. We both know that much of the crap you post is simply revisionist nonsense.
As to many of the other stories that you post that are true, hey, guess what, there are myths surrounding the holocaust, there are unscrupulous people trying to take advantage, there are some people who are liars. But the usual tactic of offering up these identified false "facts" as evidence that the entire narrative is a fraud, is specious and wholly intellectually dishonest. But as I say, arriving at justification for a position by such fallacious logic is typical of how transparent and frankly stupid the denialist position is.

I can completely understand that you might be a tad irritated by being called out for using classic denialist tactics at every turn.
I might be concerned with your accusation of my "fact free" postings if not for the source.



FACT:
truth tellers arguments are the truth and can't be blown to smithreens. The truth is simply the truth. OTOH, the bullcrap nonsense and complete denial of truth that is demonstrated by denialists in all their intellectual dishonesty have been blown to smithereens, repeatedly and in minute detail.


FACT
If it's true it ain't slander

FACT:

A truthful version of the holocaust is well established fact.

FACT:
The widespread suffering of millions of innocent people throughout Europe during and immediately after ww2 is incredibly well documented.

 

Have you ever listened to Ursula Haverbeck? Here is a wonderful video of an interview with English writng underneath. Just enlarge the video, then it is quite easy to read. If it goes to fast, pause and finish reading.

http://nwioqeqkdf.blogspot.com/2015/05/ursula-haverbeck-destroys.html

This is a very intelligent and logical thinking lady.
WHY wouldn't the Central Jewish Council in Germany answer her questions?
What would be your answer to her?

 

FACT:
Remember, I asked you to refute (i.e. "blow to smithreens") ONE Fact I've cited throughout this thread.

The fact that you cannot "blow to smithreens" ONE Fact I've cited speaks louder than your plagiarized, slanderous snippets from Holocaustian "How to...." sites, puerile baiting ploys & desperate attempts to get in the last word.


What part of: "Refute ONE Fact" are you unable to understand?

 

Look, we have been thru this a few dozen times. Your supposed facts have been "blown to smithereens" REPEATEDLY. Yet, for some strange but rather obvious reason, that information just seems to bounce off the ol' noggin.

Now instead of doing rote data dumps of revisionist garbage, if you have ANYTHING of substantive evidence to prove that the holocaust never happened or that the Nazi's did not actually engage in planned mass exterminations, perhaps you can post your "big smoking gun" evidence instead offering up anecdotes.

Got any actual forensic scientific analyses from reputable scientists? How about we start there since that would be the most logical place, wouldn't it?

 

My answer to her would be simply be - think what ya want, no problem, say what you want, no problem, Stop whinging about the consequences of doing so.

 

But Jonsa, she is not whining. She is inquiring... she wants to know where the 6 million dead are?
I would answer her: They were gassed and right away cremated, and the ashes were plowed under in the adjacent fields.
But then the whole argument would start all over again. She would say there were no gassings; and burning that many people is impossible... the Germans didn't have the resources for that. And the overflying allies didn't see any smoke coming from the chimneys. Etc.
In my opinion these "discussions, if one could call it that, are fruitless and depressing. The German authorities have voluntarily or otherwise accepted the official holocaust narrative and live with it. End of story. BUT....

here is something else Mrs. Haverbeck has to tell us: The present flooding of Germany with all sorts of refugees, mainly young men, is part of the Hooton Plan.
Watch video, it has English subtitels
https://archive.org/details/UrsulaHaverbeckAugust2016TheHootonPlanAndTheMigrantCrisis

- - -

Can you believe it?
In a surprise night-time raid eighty-six year old German historian Ursula Haverbeck had her door kicked in and her house stormed by an armed anti-terrorist Police swat team after her recent Germany-wide television appearance. The secret police trashed her home throwing it’s entire contents onto the floor in a search for what are believed to be documents which might incriminate the official account of the Holocaust. Three other historian colleagues of hers have also had their homes broken into and their books and documents seized by the security police. She is being charged under draconian anti-Jewish hate speech and Holocaust denial laws.

They have gone nuts in Germany! That's all I can say.

http://abundanthope.net/pages/Polit...-Lies-Historic-Broadcast-Shocks-Germany.shtml

- - -

Here are tons of links you can click on for more info:

http://abundanthope.net/pages/Political_Information_43/The-end-of-the-Jewish-century_printer.shtml

My eyes have gone square, and my brain is overflowing!
Enough for tonight!


P.S.
Here Ursula talks to the German youth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pus4G12VK08

Doesn't she look like a young girl, almost?
It is a youthful spirit that lives in her body and stands up for the truth!

 

You're the one who claimed that my assertions & supported facts have:

.

Therefore, if what you claim is true, it should be easy to find JUST ONE EXAMPLE in which my supported Facts have:

as you claim
.

This is the 3rd time I've asked you to prove what you REPEATEDLY claim but since you obviously cannot support your claim, its just another specious falsehood endemic to adherents of fraudulent Holocaustian dogma.


What part of "Prove your claim" are you unable to understand?

 

What part of of this exchange do you not understand.

Now if you want to actually get me to rebut the revisionist garbage you post, then present you the results of the extensive forensic investigations conducted by denialists.

As I have repeatedly said, I am not interested in addressing individual anecdotal stories of deception, misrepresentation and lies. I am not interested in debunking the inevitable myths and apocryphal stories, nor the handful of liars/charlatans. I am much more interested in the meat of the matter.

So provide us with your SCIENTIFIC FORENSIC examinations. Provide us all with an explanation of the documented Einsatzgruppen activities in the East that proves they weren't mandated with extermination. Tell us how "they" managed to fix over 10,000 trails of nazis and their collaborators while coercing all of their testimony and and their confessions.
Prove to us why there are so many interviews of SS guards who proudly describe their activities in murdering thousands.


It is up to you to prove your claim that the holocaust didn't happen. So far, all you have been able to do is engage in standard tactics.

What I particular find amusing is that you don't seem to be capable of comprehending that in a saga that has a cast of tens of millions, many of whom were totally traumatized by their experiences, might produce a couple of handfuls of people who lied, exaggerated and misremembered, not to mention there being the usual % of criminals and scumbags involved.

Of course without that group of people whose stories have been debunked or dismissed or exposed, you guys would have precious little left to present as "proof".
You have NO credible scientific forensic evidence that contradicts the main narrative.
You have NO credible high ranking Nazi official that denied that narrative of events, but all either denied involvement or knowledge or responsibility.

NOW.

YOu want a thorough debunking?

Okay lets start with the forensic evidence that should be the foundation of your argument. I shall await you amassing the YUUUGGE amount of same and presenting it here.

that's the second time I have told you I am more than prepared to respond to actual evidence, not anecdotes. But it doesn't seem you have very much besides pointing to known lies and frauds.

 

There isn't a credible historian alive or dead that ever suggested that the Germans gassed 6 million jews. so your answer would be wrong right off the start.

Too bad there actually was a gassing program that included cremation of the remains.
Your contention that Germany didn't have the resources to build a few furnaces to burn human bodies is laughable.
You think it takes any more effort or engineering than building some panzers?

Keep trying.

 

But... why then do the Jews make that claim?

Was there? I wonder, how Ursula Haverbeck can say, not a single Jew was gassed?

You understood me wrong, I meant they didn't have the coal to burn 6 mil. corpses. What did they use to keep the hot, hot fire going day and night?

No, I'm not killing myself over the issue. People are dead and have moved on. They don't care anymore about what we argue over.

Here I found something else, quite interesting....

http://www.de.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/534928/jewish/Charakterverbesserung.htm
I never knew the torah teaches "love thy neighbor as thyself".

Excerpt:

I am hoping you can read and understand German. "Mitmenschen" means all people, not just Fellow Jews.
Isn't this fantastic? Jews are being taught to be and do good!
And here the world is afraid of them!
Or do Zionists try to please another God, one, who tells them the Non-Jews are animals?

I'm glad I found this article and will read more from it.

 

In reference to your question:

I understand that I am weary of dealing with angry, deluded, insecure & insulting Holocaustians who can't even understand German yet claim to know "all about" a tiny facet of German / European history.

I also understand that you're the one who claimed that my assertions & supported facts throughout this thread have:

You made the claim, yet are unable to support that blatant falsehood or you would have done so by now.

It's your turn to show where my arguments have:

Now, since you seem to have so much free time, get busy & show where the facts & assertions I've already made have:

Since standard Holocaust® dogma cannot stand up to honest scrutiny, it is the only mythical facet of history that requires protection by "Democratic" governments.


I'm intimately familiar with fraudulent & circular Holocaustian debate tactics employed by those who insult, dismiss & ridicule far better educated specialists, historians etc & individuals who can think for themselves.

For example:

1st. A well respected scholar debunks a Holocaustian myth with an irrefutable fact.

2nd. Because "denying the Holocaust®" is a crime or shunned in the academic world[1] that same respected scholar gets fired, punished for "Thought Crimes".

3rd The formerly well respected & accredited scholar suddenly becomes "discredited" because of the fact he revealed

4th Because the truthful fact came from the formerly well respected scholar who is now, suddenly, "discredited", the Fact, itself, suddenly comes from a "discredited scholar" whose only crime was revealing the truth.

5th Deluded Holocaustians can then dismiss truthful facts because they come from a "discredited source" who was only discredited for revealing a fact that was illegal to reveal.


"Revisionists" & "Conspiracy Theorists" like Galileo & Copernicus experienced the same sort of persecution from an equally wealthy & powerful organization to the Holocaust® Industry for revealing the fact that the Earth revolved around the Sun while " everyone knew" or was taught that the Sun revolved around the Earth.

If you want me to continue to respond to your Posts, you'll have to be more honest & civil.




[1] “The fastest way to get expelled from a British university is by (*)saying you are looking at chemical evidence for how Zyklon was used in World War II, with a discussion of how delousing technology (*)functioned in the German World War II labour camps”
(*)—Nicholas Kollerstrom

 

You seem to have a great deal of difficulty in actually addressing the issue at hand.

I see you blithely ignored my challenge to you.

YOu want a thorough debunking?

Okay lets start with the forensic evidence that should be the foundation of your argument. I shall await you amassing the YUUUGGE amount of same and presenting it here.

that's the second time I have told you I am more than prepared to respond to actual evidence, not anecdotes. But it doesn't seem you have very much besides pointing to known lies and frauds.

Yes and then it goes in the "myth" pile, along with the rest. That's how it works.

You can deny anything you want, it doesn't make the denial true. Or has that little detail escaped you? As for getting punished for a thought crime, no, one gets punished for a HATE CRIME, and denying the existence of a) the gas chambers and b) the organized industrialized murder of the final solution is considered a hate crime in the nations that suffered the most from them.

I can only think of two well respected and accredited scholars who revealed their denialism and were subsequently discredited. I believe one of them even got eviscerated in England's high court.

Er, facts can never be discredited - they are simply facts. The fact remains. Unfortunately, your "formerly well respected scholar" didn't offer up facts, he offered up the same old debunked bullcrap "evidence" you have consistently been peddling.

I don't dismiss any "truthful facts" although in my experience if a fact isn't "truthful" it isn't a fact, its a lie. Oh wait, are you suggesting that we should simply accept the lies you consider facts as "truthful" without examining them in detail?

Galileo and Copernicus? Now that is truly pathetically hilarious. But I am not surprised that denialists might think there is some sort of equivalency between breakthrough hard science and the hate and ideologically driven drivel that pretends to be the "science of holocaust revisionism". Yep in a few hundred years people will be extolling the names of Leuchter and Rudolph as two of the greatest scientific minds of their generation.

Every once and awhile you deliver pure gold.

I always strive to be honest which is why holocaust deniers push my limits of civility.

ABSOLUTE NONSENSE!

There are literally dozens of books, doctoral thesis, and research papers on the subject that are readily available. Hydrogen cyanide is a rather well researched compound and has a number of industrial uses. There is NO argument that zyklon b was used as a delousing fumigant as well as a human exterminant, EXCEPT by denialists.

Anytime you want to actually delve into the facts in a systematic fashion, I'll be happy to. See my challenge above.

 

I see you've never stepped foot in a holocaust museum, nor read many books on the subject.

Anyone who claims that 6 million jews were gassed is ignorant of the universally established facts, or is simply regurgitating a bumpersticker.

By opening her mouth?

yes, let's ignore the fact that what was once a central argument of denialism, the ol' how could they burn that many bodies, has now been relegated to = "never mind".

Yes, it is always a good thing when one's own ignorance is revealed to oneself setting them on the path to knowledge and understanding. Good luck.

 

Thanks! And good luck to you too!

 

I'm still waiting for you to support your initial claim that my arguments have:

In spite of all your verbiage, you've shown no evidence that you can carry on an exchange honestly & civilly.
Come back when you're mature enough to do so.

 

Just as I thought. You can't deliver, not even remotely on my challenge to you.

Nope you'd rather resort to the same tired old transparent tactics of the goosesteppers of denialism.





1. Creamed Mush with Fog Sauce -- Never provide evidence for your assertions. In fact, respond to demands for evidence the way Dracula responds to crucifixes. Do anything you can to avoid it. Throw insults. Change the subject. Obfuscate. Laugh derisively. Claim you already gave the evidence or that someone else did. But never provide any evidence yourself (unless you provide an incomplete or incomprehensible citation along with it).

2. Heads-I-Win-Tails-You-Lose -- Demand that all evidence for the Holocaust be proved genuine (dodging any discussion of what that proof would consist of), and also demand that all your unsubstantiated assertions be proved false. That way, you never bear any burden of proof. (originally posted by Mike Stein)

5. Sticks and Stones -- If you're being wiped out with evidence and reasoning you cannot refute, you can always take refuge in complaining about the language being used by your adversaries. For example, if they say, "I've already explained that it takes less gas to kill people than lice, and therefore there are fewer cyanide residues remaining on the gas chamber walls than on the delousing chamber walls, you moron," you can respond by complaining about their use of the word "moron." You can actually evade quite a bit of serious discussion by spending a lot of time condescendingly lecturing the newsgroup about their use of trashy language. But this approach doesn't work very well in building credibility. You may view yourself as an arbiter of social discourse but you'll actually come off like a den-mother scurrying around excoriating the little Cub Scouts to behave themselves.

11. The Great Leap -- This tactic goes like this: If one piece of testimony about the Holocaust seems unreliable, then ALL testimony about the Holocaust is unreliable. If one Holocaust witness may have recanted something on the stand, then all other Holocaust witnesses are liars. If some camp prisoners did not starve to death, then NONE of them starved to death. etc. But be careful. This is a double-edged sword -- someone may use the well-documented lies of other revisionists to conclude that YOU are a liar as well.

17. Although all of your arguments will be consistently blown to smithereens, just wait a few days or weeks and then re-post them.

18. Remember that the revisionist community is peopled mainly by racists, white-supremacists, Israel-bashers, and Nazis. This means that everyone except these kinds of people will dismiss you. But don't let that stop you. Don't let your Fellini-esque, internally inconsistent, un-researched, hypocritical distortions and lies prevent you from continuing to post. After all, you're fighting for the truth (as you'd like it to be).