jared diamond.... luis and walter alverez...looking to other fields of study to answer their questions and if the recent findings in Georgia are confirmed it should completely end the notion there are different races among todays homo sapiens, appearance is superficial and cosmetic... which from what I've read is the result when dogs interbreed with coyotes, more liters more pups...
ya I use information gained from one source and throw it out to another expert friend and see what they have to say, sometimes it's agreement/confirmation, other times there's disagreement and other times it's "hmm, that's an interesting problem"... it's always a net info gain for everybody...
Hey, back off you two. Everything you need to know in truth is above in the Moi uploads. wyly bobov and I have know each other for some years and he is an expert even in fields he doesn't know. Such as economics. Who ya, bobov ? bobov It is evident wyly is reforming his thoughts having previously been brainwashed into the Western way of viewing this science. I do not want to have to choose sides because I will have to choose, ME ! The center of my own universe. Okay!&? Let's have fun. BTW all, I realized what I do, lately, on this topic is "reverse engineer". If some critter lived in an area they were not climatically suited - what technology would they require. It isn't just about tools. 1) Fire, Ok, that's easy. 2) Curing hides. Uncured hides would be an invitation to disease, rot, etc. And this is a higher quality activity than just storing nuts for the winter or keeping a fire burning because you don't know how to make one. 3) Sewing. What good is a loose hide. They were probably tailored as well as any Inuit today. Why not? 4) Food preservation. Beyond storing nuts, how to preserve foods that normally would not stay fresh. 5) Although not "required" as much as the above, carrying water may count. Hollow gourds, leather pouches. Think of a problem for them to survive and what it minimally required. I do not see where any hominid to leave Africa could have been "less than human". Even that small brained one found in Georgia. That's just "my brain in action". Highly recommended http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb6NDww25Yo&feature=c4-feed-mvu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quest_for_Fire_%28film%29 This is probably the "best" caveman film. Portrayed are different peoples at different levels of "advancement". The most advanced tribe was patterned after the most primitive tribe known in the Philippines. Making this movie was an academic achievement and really rough on the cast. Includes Ron Perlman and Ray Dong Chong early in their careers. Perlman's "excited ape" moves are aped in Alien Resurrection, remember the scene? I thought he was exploiting a skill from a previous movie. Moi bobov, wyly, make nice now I enjoy you both and YOU know who I would choose
and compare a cows brain size 465gm to a crow's tiny brain...which is smarter, it's no contest the crow...
I don't think so. A year or more ago I lectured some Easterner that all their photos of a coyote in the EAST, like that one that got the jogger in New Hampshire or some such are not coyotes. They look short eared, proportional legs and a husky physique. I later learned they are coyotes and there are over five, I believe nine populations of coyote. Our coyote in the west is that funny looking animal that makes a good image of a jester, long spindly legs and long rabbit ears. At a stand still they can leap over an 8' fence seen on live TV while a news chopper and police are trying to save the poor animal by stressing it. Maybe it is just our Western coyotes with our ideal climate that can foster 3 litters a year with no genetic help from domesticated canines. Y'think? Similar to goats and Moi's proposed difference between Erectus/Neanderthal females and the latest out of Africa ladies. Hey, even MOI is wrong sometimes. There was another time too. Moi
naa it's always the way I've viewed science, I pick people's brains for knowledge, I bombard my nuerologist friend with questions about the brain, the same goes for my friends, a chemist, a cardiologist, a epidemiologist, a rheumatologist ,an engineer, orthopedic surgeon, my daughter the archeologist/historian etc...a tremendous amount of scientific knowledge among them all mine for taking... 1-fire not so easy, warmth? not really a requirement in tropical rain forests, yes it does supply safety, it preserves food(cooked), social activity, allows preparation of meat cooked meat which easier to digest, cooked meat provides more energy than uncooked meat and allows the brain an organ with high fuel requirements... 2 & 3-curing hides sewing, in temperate climes probably simple and cape like would suffice, but what was the creative process to advance to highly technical clothing of the Inuit?...the needle would've been a major technological advancement... 4-likely cooking/fire 5-seems like relatively simple step... or Florensis with a brain smaller than a chimp crossed the Wallace Gap... which would seem to suggest advanced long range planning ability and the technical knowledge to build water craft that could cross open seas... I saw quest for fire decades ago and alien resurrection too...I don't know the scene your describing
eastern coyotes are newcomers, man and the elimination of wolves made it possible for them to move east...the red wolf is suspected of being a wolf/coyote hybrid, there is a significant regional difference in coyote size...coyotes do interbreed with wolves when the wolves don't kill them...as do dogs and apparently as result they become something of a super coyote, bigger, smarter and no fear of man...the various coyotes and wolf groups are being modified by dog populations...
Moi, you know I'm expert in everything, especially subjects I know nothing about. I also know that you're God, and it's all about YOU. Goes without saying. Wyly, he would choose you if he didn't have to choose himself. It's the cross I bear. 1. People can live without fire. The Inuit ate raw meat. So might others. People can also rise and set with the sun, as animals do. People in cold climates need warmth, but I don't know that the early hominids lived in cold climates. 2. Curing hides. Yes, if you're going to wear hides, not the plant materials used by most tropical tribes. 3. Sewing. OK for hides. Plants can be threaded, roped, tied. 4. Early hominids may not have stored much food, but simply ate as they hunted and gathered - another reason for environmental sensitivity, since without reserves they'd need an uninterrupted supply. People eventually discovered drying, salting, smoking, cheese making, bread and pie crust, and other ways to preserve food, but I don't know when these things started. The Inuit had natural refrigeration! 5. Living near water always a plus for both drinking and fishing.
We are talking about people like beings, if not people living in arctic winter conditions. A recent article in Science claims a considerable amount of protein eaten by Neanderthal was fish. Although salting or smoking may have taken some time to figure out, drying fish and pieces of meat was probably in their means. Also, I do believe sewing came before weaving plant material. Certainly if one has the skills to weave, you can sew. Sewing needles were among the Neanderthal tools. Even some that appear to have designed for suturing wounds. They were a lot more advanced then the brutish museum displays to survive arctic like winters. It figures. Moi
the inuit diet is interesting, extremely poor in plant produce yet they didn't suffer from vitamin deficiencies...they do eat raw meat but they also cooked, boiled, smoked, dried and fermented meat... how early hominids? homo erectus lived through ice ages and colder regions...there are cold weather tolerant primates...I'm not aware of an earlier hominid that left relatively warmer africa before erectus...
I can envision smoking being discovered quickly, bring fish back to the cave to hang and dry and campfire smoke unintentionally smoking the fish...there is evidence of shellfish and seal in their diet as well...if they lived by the sea it seems only natural they would learn to exploit the tidal areas and the shorelines in those times likely teaming with seals...
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/18/science/fossil-skull-may-rewrite-humans-evolutionary-story.html "After eight years spent studying a 1.8-million-year-old skull uncovered in the Republic of Georgia, scientists have made a discovery that may rewrite the evolutionary history of our human genus Homo. . . ." Was it an Erectus? Was it a Habilis? It had to have some "know how" to survive outside of Edan. Continuity through continuous hybridization. Moi
Genetic testing has thrown up a surprising genetic link to Australian aboriginals. Who or whatever these people were, they were ultimately pretty successful
They are Us, PeopleKind. Even in separate populations the "pulls" of Natural Selection would be the same and keep the populations on the straight and human path. So when they meet up again, they are still the same species. Remember, that skull from Georgia is about a million years before Neanderthal's appearance. Which group are you linking to the OZ natives ? Moi PS For a good time, read up on the "Aquatic Ape". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatic_ape_hypothesis No
Sorry got my homos mixed up. I was thinking of these guys discovered in 2008 Also in Russia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisova_hominin
I think you should stop confusing races with species . Neanderthals developed in Europe and the ME from a species known as homo Heidelbergensis . It appears that the racial equivalent of homo Heidelbergensis in Africa ( called homo Rhodesiensis) may be our ancestor . The Habilis were small folks , about 1.10m height . The morphology of Neanderthals and Erectus is very different , so it is their morphology when compared to us . The Chinese are wrong .
I agree... I think the chinese theory may have some racist undertones in it's foundations...my being married into the chinese culture I know they're generally quite racist and have a racial superiority complex...by claiming to have different ancestry than the rest of humanity it allows them to back those racial beliefs with science in order to give it legitimacy...no different than those with european ancestry claiming to be superior/smarter than sub-saharan africans through phrenology/morphology...
Did I miss something? Please explain what you mean by the Chinese theory. What I introduced from them is that they claim their later H erectus skulls show flattening of the cheek bones. And that they subscribe to "continuity (of species), through continuous hybridization." How does anything get racist. And why disagree. Certainly like all of us, their MtDNA is of the latest "out of Africa" and not unique. Thanks you and sorry if I missed something in the discussion. Moi Prideful racism is common among many peoples. Jewish/Gentile for example and most of all No
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2510219/Ancient-humans-rampantly-interbred-Neanderthals-mystery-species-Lord-Of-The-Rings-style-word-different-creatures.html Ancient humans 'rampantly interbred' with Neanderthals and a mystery species in Lord Of The Rings-style world of different creatures Genome analysis of Neanderthal and human-like group called Denisovans It reveals ancient bedfellows may have included 'mystery human ancestor' Has been likened to Lord Of The Rings world of creatures which interbred Ancient humans rampantly indulged in interspecies sex in a Lord Of The Rings-type world of different human groups, new DNA analysis has revealed. And our ancient bedfellows appear to have included a 'mystery human ancestor', which has not yet been identified. Genome analysis from a Neanderthal and another group of ancient humans, the Denisovans, was presented to a meeting of the Royal Society in London, and it included 'snippets' of the mystery DNA - neither human nor Neanderthal. It suggests that interbreeding was rampant and more widespread between the human-like groups living in Europe and Asia more than 30,000 years ago than previously thought, scientists say. He said: 'Denisovans appear more distinct from modern humans than Neanderthals. He added: 'Denisovans harbour ancestry from an unknown archaic population, unrelated to Neanderthals', New Scientist reports. Like maybe Asian H. erectus ? We have no genome of an erectus. Mark Thomas, an evolutionary geneticist at University College London who was present at the presentation, said: 'What it begins to suggest is that we're looking at a Lord Of The Rings-type world - that there were many hominid populations.' It comes after ancient viruses inherited from Neanderthals were found in modern human DNA. <edit> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Another case where "science" catches up to "Moi". Moi No
Interpolated spatial distribution of the frequency of Denisova alleles at SNPs where Denisova is different from chimpanzee and Neandertal. Sample localities are indicated with rectangles. A recent study titled "Archaic human ancestry in East Asia" (Skoglunda and Jakobssona 2011) found the presence of Denisova alleles in China at moderate frequencies and David Reich at Harvard Medical School admitted that his previous research that concluded that there was no Denisova gene flow in China was flawed. Reich said at the meeting that Denisovans interbred with Neanderthals and with the ancestors of human populations that now live in China in addition to Oceanic populations, as his team previously reported. Denisovans had reached Asia well before H. sapience did and it's plausible that Denisovans interbred with another extinct population of archaic humans that lived in Asia more than 30,000 years ago, thus inheriting 5% of the unknown species' genetic material.
What are YOU saying? Also the quote you quoted was corrupted because it did not maintain my editorial additions in RED about erectus. What part is disagreeable with "continuity by continuous hybridization". To add spice, be sure to see the movie, "Quest for Fire". Notice the different "humanoid" populations. Moi Just Say; "No!"
H. sapience did not directly interbreed with H. erectus in Asia but the conference in London made it clear that Chinese people have inherited some portions of Denisovan alleles, which would make up less than 2% of their genetic makeup. As a result, the Chinese may be genetically around 0.1% H. erectus without their ancestors' face-to-face encounters with the archaic species as H. erectus alleles were transferred from Denisovans to the modern-day Chinese. This endless cycle of gene flow could go all the way back to the most ancient human existed on earth and we may have inherited other archaic humans' genetic material through Neanderthals and Denisovans.
That the later day Chinese H. erectus was demonstrating flattening of the cheekbones is sound physical anthropology for their influence on some of the unique qualities of the Asiatic appearance. Like football shaped craniums & Neanderthal & modern Europeans. And both Neanderthal and H. erectus provided the genetics to produce less melanin - which Europeans and Asians do by different means. I spent too many decades debating anthropologist who were convinced we had no Neanderthal in us and the football shaped cranium was just coincidence. Too many decades to refute "physical anthropology". Considering the short time span from the last out of Africa populating the world, the "Races of Man" would have had to involve contributions from other populations , such as Neanderthal, H. erectus, etc. Understand, I speak of the H. erectus who existed in Asia while Neanderthal was in the west. Same circa. Moi
H. erectus went extinct in Asia by about 500,000 years ago but survived in Indonesia until about 35,000 to 50,000 years ago and Denisovans may have interbred with H. erectus in Southeast Asia around 30,000 years ago, where the presence of Denisovan genetic material in local populations is much higher than mainland China. A previous study hinted at this admixture scenario among Papua New Guineans and H. erectus survived into the late Pleistocene in Central Java and was a contemporary of H. sapiens who arrived in Indonesia by about 40,000 years ago. Neanderthals became extinct around 30,000 years ago and H. sapience in Asia had a fair chance to interbreed with both Neanderthals and Denisovans.
