New Cold War? Iran Sends Warships to Gulf of Mexico ......

Use to go to Iran about every 14 months for years and years.

 

Before the Revolutionary Guard took control of the streets?

 

Nope.. When the Shah was in power.. The Iranian students had legitimate beefs .. nobody took them seriously.. Revolutions often go wrong. The Shah was not a good guy.. He was a perfumed prince backed up by the SAVAK.

 

Some people have a simplified or false image of Iran before as well as after the revolution.

Before the revolution, Iran certainly enjoyed substantial economic growth for many years during the 1960s and 1970s. The small middle class that had already been formed in Iran in previous decades grew substantially during this period. By the mid 1970s, there were more Iranian university students studying in the US than from any other place, with most of them sons and daughters of this new middle class who also had similar number of students elsewhere (Iran, UK etc). These students from middle class families, however, were often spear heading the revolution, organizing protests against the Shah and often very involved in politics given that they weren't in Iran and not subject to the same restrictions. Many of these students at the time were part of or another leftist, Marxist leaning organizations, many others were in the mold of folks looked at western social democratic models, while there was even a substantial Islamist representation even among these students. Indeed, influential writers such Dr. Shariati and Jalal Al Ahmad, had helped create a substantial intellectual movement towards religion at the time. There was, incidentally, a recent article about Jalal Al Ahmad and the fact that despite his Islamist ideology, he had traveled to Israel and written complementary things about life in an Israeli kibbutz.

Even the Iranian lower middle class and poorer families were not suffering economically under the Shah. While their lives were not enviable necessarily, it was improving and the kind of economic pressures that are rather constantly felt today were largely absent then.

The focal point of demands and activities behind the revolution wasn't bread and butter or economic issues. The revolution, moreover, had profound reasons and causes that went well beyond even silly attempts to portray the Shah as some sort of a sadistic personality. I can expand on and explain those causes if someone is truly interested, but I want to be clear that I reject the ideas about the Shah that those in left have tried feverishly to propagate.

None of that, however, changes the fact that the image of Iran today in the west is an outright lie: a propaganda caricature that is absurd and immediately exposed as a lie when someone steps foot here. Iran is a complicated society and too bad its complications don't fit the need of US and Israeli political propaganda outfits to simply the issues through fake news and lies.

 

1. Americans belong to USA and not Iraq
2. You should have thought about that before destroying iranian democracy and installation of the Shah
3. Did USA pay compensation yet for those murdered under the Shah muppet?

What we trade with Iran is German / iranian issue. As long you trade with Saudi Arabia i see no problem.

 

Partially correct. Many of the problems we have nowadays are vestiges of the Cold War. US support for the Shah was primarily based on that fact. What I find silly are those who attack the US for its actions in the Cold War, but never take the actions into context nor fault the USSR or the PRC for their actions over the same time period.

 

That is the reason for the Islamic revolution and why the Iranian students took the American CIA hostages in the American embassy. BUT .... that has been secret information for American citizens. Americans don't know anything about it.

NO. And for the illegal invasion of Irak with about one million innocent men, women, and children tortured, raped and murdered? Also NO.

Exactly right.

 

It all has to be considered in light of the Cold War anxieties.. Same with the Suez Crisis and Cuba. In each case we drove the Iranians, Egyptians and Cubans into the arms of the Soviets.

 

LOL. Believe as you want, Margot.

 

You remember the Lavon Affair and the financing proposal for the Aswan Dam? You remember that the Brits were paying the Shah 6% of oil revenue instead of 50% like every other country? Do you remember the Colorado Sugar Beet Lobby, when America stopped buying any sugar from Cuba and the Soviets bought the whole crop for decades?

 

Yes. Yes. Yes. Where is that all America's fault with no blame for the USSR and the PRC?

 

Iran has actual deep water ships? Maybe they are sending a squadron of those little patrol craft they threaten our Navy with from time to time? Iranian sailors water skiing in the Gulf of Mexico?

 

I expect more from us.. aren't we better, smarter, exceptional?

 

So they say.....but as far as their sailors water skiing, nah they would be trembling that some Americans with real speed boats might show up and run their asses over.

Still if they show up.....we should play some games of Chicken with them. Then Start yelling out Death to Iran. See how they like it.

 

No, they aren't. They're still in the process of building a destroyer. They have frigates and subs.

 

Me too. However, how can you judge us without perspective?

 

Having lived in the US and outside the US, I think I do have perspective.. and an ability to walk a mile in the other guy's shoes.

 

I can claim the same. OTOH, which of us best puts the Cold War in perspective? The one who recognizes both sides did some nasty things or the one who only blames the US for doing nasty things?

 

No, we're really not interested. There's enough lies and regime-based propaganda floating across the internet already.

No one cares how "complicated" its society is, apparently your juvenile euphemism for oppression and mass murder, both internally and externally. When a nation's own diplomats begin requesting asylum in other nations because your elections are faked - something that hasn't happened even to russia - you know that government is absolutely illegitimate.

The world despises iran because of what it does in the mideast; its terrorism, initiation of wars through terrorist proxies, overthrow/undermining of other nations' governments, threats against other nations, etc. No one GAFF about its internal politics.

 

The Cold War was largely a myth of our own making..We put far too much emphasis on it with so much propaganda, the whole duck and cover drills, the mad dash to build fall out shelters, the hysteria of McCarthyism etc......

 

We regularly make nuclear threats, mostly by nuts, but lately on the Presidential level.

 

IIRC your nation's clandestine services was one of the seventeen that also concurred saddam had an inventory of WMDs, so let's not pretend Bush II just arbitrarily decided to walk into Baghdad.

The US did no such thing, but using your pathetic "logic", why hasn't Germany been attacking russia the way iran has used a 75 year old event to attack the US? russia murdered thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of east germans, yet your people do nothing.

As I said, reparations were paid for the airliner shot down. I'm still waiting for iran to pay them for their VERY long list of attacks maiming or killing thousands of americans.

Uh, no. When I see Germany spending what it is supposed to regarding military defense, maintaining 12 carrier groups worldwide to keep trade/shipping lanes open, THEN come to me about what Germany will accept or not.

 

A man takes responsibility for his own wrongs. Only a child points on others.

Iran is the only nation in the middle east which progress of its own. Iran has a highly educated population and workforce. Iran would be million times better allie than a corrupted dirthole Saudi Arabia ever could be.

 

Not really and not with Iran. We need to start making it personal. Maybe then they will jump and we can solve their problem for them.

 

Don't you know? According to many low IQ trash the US is at fault for ALL of the world's problems, but the russians, arab muslims and chinese are "innocent" lambs who never can do anything wrong. Its like standing in the back of a kindergarten class during a recess.