NYC Black Lives Matter marches can continue despite large-event ban, de Blasio says

It doesn't surprise me that the variable you chose is most definitely NOT the 200+ year struggle of a huge ethnic group seeking to have the same privileges that you enjoy, versus a mass gathering to praise an idol who needs praising in order to avoid His wrath.

I don't think Trump supporters are worried about virus exposure rates. They're more concerned about white privilege exposure rates.

But, on a sidenote, it turned out you're not altogether wrong. Looks like mass gatherings out in the open all over the country, (most with masks) did not significantly increase cases anywhere near as much as a mass gathering indoors with no masks. Even with the disappointing attendance to the latter, it was the cause of a high spike in infections in Arizona. Including the Governor of the state.

 

The mods. Lol

I don't know about everywhere but in NYC health workers were instructed not to ask people who tested positive if they had been involved in demonstrations. That would seem to make it difficult to have an honest picture of what caused what.

 

Ok first of all no one can say with any level of certainty what caused spikes in the virus cases. (One should also note that in the US people who die WITH Covid are also conflated into the data of people who died OF Covid as evidenced by people who died of head trauma, alcohol poisoning and drug overdose but that is another issue)

Ironically I support the BLM protests a a vector to maximizing the virus exposure to get this nonsense over with sooner than later. Most pictures of BLM protestors show them without masks while screaming and without social distancing. Given that a human sneeze can travel 20 feet then the stage is set and being outdoors is not a barricade. I was sneezed on twice before my illness in Amsterdam while outdoors.

As for African Americans who are claiming victimization in spite of affirmative action, minority set asides in government contracts, grade inflation, the terror that American companies feel at not hiring African Americans and also at firing them even with cause, the election of an African American president impossible without white support, and the exoneration of OJ Simpson who killed two white people and exonerated due to political pressure, the notion of systematic racism becomes increasingly hard to sell.

As long as victimization pays, it cannot go away.

To understand politics then follow the money.

And I thought the standard line was 400 years of racial oppression, not 200.

As long as radical African Americans shun integration even given special privileges in favor of the hope of reparations of course they will not integrate.

 

Virtue is a powerful sanitizer.

 

It is not as if there is ever going to be any shortage of black individuals being killed by law enforcement because they chose to fight and resist rather than complying with lawful orders like everyone else in society. Let the protestors wait and express their outrage some other time.

 

I fully understand that the police can be true asses who often want to surrogate their own low self esteem by bullying others. I am white and was stopped in Indiana because I had out of state plates and was traveling on a highway frequented by people moving drugs out of Chicago to points east. Yes I was profiled. I was strip searched and forced to strip on the side of the road in full daylight. I did not resist as I know that means death by cop. Of course they found nothing but it’s still outrageous.The Police culture has to change I agree but I won’t martyr myself for that cause!

 

I didn't know that. But NYC's cases kept the same downward trend that they had before the protests. While Oklahoma (and specifically Tulsa) saw their trend shoot up after an event with no masks and after 6 staffers had tested positive.

BTW, I said Arizona before. I meant Oklahoma.

 

What I really believe is that the data is being twisted and modeled to fit the argument at the time, both sides do it. If one large gathering causes a spike in positives then all large gatherings should give the same result. I also believe the death rate, not numbers day to day but the rate gives us a much better picture of the real threat from the virus.

The biggest failures in this battle are local governments. The Feds are unable to give us a one size fits all solution because conditions are so different from one area to another. Local governments are simply not prepared and lack the tools to cope and that is the result of historic events and needs in those places, not neglect from the Feds.

We also have the reality of the situation masked by the Democrat drive to keep this going so they can convince voters that it's all Trump's fault. It isn't.

 

If Hilary had been elected and the numbers were roughly the same she would have been viewed as the unfortunate president who had this mess thrown on her.

This is clearly all about US politics as the lack of masks and social distancing is totally tolerated by democrats in the BLM protests.

Too important a voting block to antagonize in November in the US!

 

We do know with a very high level of certainty that large gatherings of people not wearing masks indoors causes spikes (BTW, I said Arizona. I meant Oklahoma). The protests appear to show that large gatherings of people outdoors in which the majority wear masks... apparently not so much. But that's not the main issue anyway. That was just a side comment about your strawman.

The issue is Civil Rights that have been denied for over 200 years vs a political rally. You appear to think they are equivalent. And they might be to you (or maybe the rally more important, I don't know). But I can assure you they are not to the people to whom those rights have been denied.

Of course! Because, strictly speaking, nobody dies OF Covid. They die of complications CAUSED by Covid. In other words, if it hadn't been because they got infected with Covid they would have almost certainly be alive today. The number of which, is severely under counted.

Ironically I support the BLM protests a a vector to maximizing the virus exposure to get this nonsense over with sooner than later.

I'm not sure if by systematic racism you mean systemic racism. Doesn't sound like the same. But it may be just a translation issue. Systemic racism is not hard to sell to those who suffer it. And impossible to sell to those who favor it. But it is well documented and demonstrated by hundreds of studies.

Racial oppression... more than 400 years. But I'm talking specifically about the denial of the rights set in our Constitution.

Looks like you're pretty clueless about BLM and these protests. They have nothing to do with reparations.

 

Ah! Of course... The "they're as bad as we are" argument. Absolute nonsense!

One side wants data hidden, the other wants it made public. It's hard to "twist" data by demanding that it be out in the open for everybody to see and analyze.

Nope! Large gatherings indoors in which the use of masks and social distancing is discouraged apparently tend to produce bigger spikes.

The biggest failure is Trump. The second biggest has been local governments that are loyal to Trump. The third were local governments that, though not loyal to Trump, expected the Trump administration to help. The biggest success are the ones that realized the earliest that any effective response against this pandemic would only happen by circumventing this incompetent Presidency and dealing with the experts directly.

First of all, this administration is not expected to give any solution whatsoever. Just getting out of the way would have been preferable. But this administration has not only not helped. They have placed obstacles to the work of federal officials who wanted to help and provide guidance.

This is why we have had the worst response in the world to this pandemic.

I agree that it is not the neglect from the Feds. It's the undermining of health authorities by Trump.

And, of course, you have nothing to point to that would show that the Democrats have done anything whatsoever to keep this going. You're just repeating the latest wingnut echo chamber talking points, right?

 

The issue is Civil Rights that have been denied for over 200 years vs a political rally. You appear to think they are equivalent. And they might be to you (or maybe the rally more important, I don't know). But I can assure you they are not to the people to whom those rights have been denied.

What civil rights have been denied for 200 years? What civil right is denied to anyone today based on race?

 

In the case of the BLM protests relevant to this thread, the right to live, for example. More broadly, the right to not be profiled.

 

I’ve given you a long list of special privileges that have been afforded African Americans and you have ignored them and I mentioned myself having been strip searched on the side of the road after being profiled because I was driving with out of state plates on a highway frequented by drug traffickers.

Radical African Americans may wish to have sole victimhood status but they are not sole victims.

Systemic or systematic racism cannot be thought of as a thing of the past as long as victimhood is rewarded in the US. And yes I believe reparations are the end game or part of the end game for many if not most in the BLM movement.

Also just because there are disparities in income is not prima facia evidence of discrimination. Just as larger proportional numbers of arrests are not prima facia evidence of discrimination.

I worked my way through college to get my chemistry degree and was awarded my first laboratory job on that basis but African Americans who came in after me were awarded that same job after having never spent a day in a college classroom. My employers told me they had to do this. So is that not discrimination?

I grew up in the city of Detroit and was regularly pulled off of my bicycle at 8 years old by groups of African American children and beaten all the while being taunted about being White. Were they justified in doing this?

I worked for everything I got without even a student loan by working nights and going to school during the day.

My ancestors came to the US around 1640 and while all southern, they lived dirt poor and were in no position to afford slaves or to profit from the institution. They remained poor until the auto industry opened up in Detroit.

I was never allowed to make excuses about anything, why should African Americans be able to when they had even more opportunities available to them? Why should this be encouraged?

Asian Americans have also been the subject of intense racism and the Irish have been treated badly as well and the former group and particularly Indians are now the most successful group in the US without having been given special privileges.

Racism will always be the excuse for not taking advantage of these special privileges.

But you are welcome to your white guilt. If you wish to virtue signal who am I to stop you?

As I recall there were outside rallies in Michigan against lockdowns and no one was saying that it was ok because they were outside. They were also less populated and not countrywide.

If BLM rallies were held indoors, would you not find some rationalization for that as well?

And yes if a person tests positive for c-19 and then goes home and smashes his head fatally or drug overdoses or dies of alcohol poisoning that is not a COVID death but you know this. Yet these have been reported as such.

By your logic, nobody dies of HIV either as those deaths take the form of pneumonia or something. Same I guess is true of cancer. Surely you see how ridiculous a statement that is.

But I’m afraid I’ve given you too much attention.

This will not become a habit, I assure you.

 

What of the hypothetical right to not be exposed to a deadly illness by those who have no regard for the health and well being of anyone other than themselves?

 

So you threw some rolls of paper towels at them and are now wondering why they are not grateful to you?

"Strip searched", huh! Well George Floyd was KILLED. I think he beats you by a mile, don't you think?

How dare they protest because cops kill them, when you suffered the ignominy of being strip searched, right?

Gimme a break!

I very much doubt that reparations would be the end game. Cops would also need to stop stopping them for "driving while black", and sometimes even shooting them.

Disparities in income may not be. But disparities in opportunities are.

And that's the thing. You had the advantage of being in a college classroom because institutional racism does not impact your career. Most black people don't have that privilege.

Your personal anecdotes are yours. Not my intention to belittle them, or anything of the sort. But they are irrelevant to this discussion. Because this is not about YOU. It's about a history of centuries of slavery, followed by a Jim Crow era, after which black people were put in a spiral of which they can't come out because they don't have the opportunity.

Will the struggle to level the playing field for black people eliminate all social injustice? No! But it will level it for a population that had no opportunity of being in a college classroom like you did.

In any case, so far this has nothing to do with this thread. Very much off-topic.

I don't know who said what, but I think they were not OK because it's idiotic to protest against a pandemic.

I don't think a BLM rally indoors would have much effect.

BLM is fighting for a right that has been denied for them for centuries. This is very justified. Comparing this struggle to a political rally or to ignorant dopes protesting against a pandemic carries the stench of ignoring this country's history with a hint of racism.

Sure. That probably accounts for about half the total cases in the U.S.

That's a ridiculous conspiracy theory. What we do know (because there are studies that prove it) is that the number of dead has been heavily under counted. By how many, it's uncertain. But estimates range from a few thousands to double the official number

https://www.opb.org/news/article/or...ties-pandemic-death-toll-possible-undercount/
https://www.jwatch.org/na51950/2020/07/15/what-burden-excess-deaths-due-covid-19-us
https://wwmt.com/news/i-team/i-team-what-is-michigans-true-covid-19-death-toll
... and many more....

There is ZERO evidence that the number of dead could be under counted.

BTW, what does this have to do with BLM?

Good call! You see... I changed my sig temporarily (as a social service). I copied my usual sig below just so you are aware. Veterans on this forum would advice you to heed it in order to avoid embarrassment.

This is what my "regular" sig says:

************************************************************************************************
NB: It took me a long time to research the validity of my arguments, and I suggest you do the same. Please refrain from responding if the only argument you can come up with is a Conspiracy Theory.

Thank you.
************************************************************************************************
God I miss it! I'll have to change it back soon.

 

When will your next novel be out?

 

"Hypothetical right to not be exposed to a deadly illness"?

What's "hypothetical" about it?

 

In the middle of a pandemic, NEITHER is acceptable. However, one is to you! That's what we call a BLATANT double standard.

 

No, you're correct - there was an Arizona rally too.

 

Sure, but that doesn't justify not including protests in contract tracing - there may have been some infections which could have been linked to a protest but wouldn't have been, putting lives on the line. Can you think of why they did such a dumb and risky thing?

Can the upward trend be blamed wholly on the rally?

 

The excuse given is that outdoor rallies are safer and that is marginally true but even If the BLM rallies moved indoors they would still be considered ok as the African American vote is considered crucial to the US Democrats in November and they would be as unconcerned about the health of Americans as they are unconcerned about the US economy.

It is noteworthy that the very few Trump rallies are blamed vis a vis the very many BLM rallies.

Reoublican cooties are worse than Democratic cooties I guess!

 

The simple fact that such a right does not exist. If it did exist, then it was grossly violated by the nation of China failing to inform the world about the existence of the coronavirus, and instead allowing it to spread across the globe.

 

That's a lie made up by people whose livelihood depends on it being believed. If you and your friends are in a constant battle with law enforcement there is more at work there than racial prejudice.