Obamacare and Cost

Discussion in 'Health Care' started by lynnlynn, Aug 2, 2013.

  1. lynnlynn

    lynnlynn New Member

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    Obamacare cannot regulate price control and cannot increase competition except in a few states where competition already exists. The cost of premiums is largely controlled by how many hospitals or hospital systems are in your state. It also depends on what the percentages are of the major health insurance companies that insure that state’s population.

    States with many hospitals or hospital systems that have somewhat comparable equal share percentages with many health insurance companies that insure their population will provide competition and choice on the exchange. States with nonprofit hospitals have low premium rates for their population.

    States that have a single dominate hospital or hospital system will see increase in rates on their exchange. People that live in rural areas will also have higher rates on the exchange. Where ever competition and choice are limited, premiums and subsidy cost are likely to be higher.

    New York, Colorado, and Minnesota will likely see reduced cost on the exchange while Alabama, Michigan, Rhode Island, and some parts of Virginia will see higher rates on the exchange. If you are interested in finding out what is going to determine premium cost in your state, you need to look up how many hospitals or hospital systems are in your state, who are the main players of health insurance companies and what percentage of the population they insure, also check if your state insurance dept has control of regulating premium pricing for insurance companies.
    Hopefully this will be helpful to those who are interested in finding out how the mandate is going to affect them.
     
  2. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Eleven states have reported health insurance costs are going DOWN thanks to Obamacare!


    More Americans are covered and many will now live thanks to Obamacare.

    Anyone who is "pro life" should be glad.
     
  3. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    I have two problems with the 'Affordable Health Care Act'.

    First it compels some people to buy more expensive comprehensive forms of healthcare they may not necessarily need. If you have the money, it makes more sense to buy a high deductible insurance plan that only covers emergencies. Buying a comprehensive plan forces you to have to deal with your insurance company every time you have a medical cost. The paperwork alone can add a lot of expense.

    Second, the system essentially makes insurance more expensive for young healthy people to make it less expensive for the old. But young people typically earn less money and are trying to save for a place to live. Seems like a very regressive system that will put a difficult burden on young adults trying to start off in life.

    And if young adults have trouble affording health insurance now, how is FORCING them to buy it going to help them??
     
  4. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    Depends on ones income, if you smoke in many states and if the STATES control prices capping increases.

    If your a young person in a state earning $15,000 a year a Bronze Plan is free, why would they not sign up. I'm 46 years old and don't smoke and I will pay for the Silver Plan $20 a month. The premiums are capped based on income. In some states you are low income you go into Medicaid even a better deal.

    And no one is forcing anyone to get into the system you don't you get a tax penalty on refunds, no jail time or other actions. But you get sick you can't just sign up you must wait for the Medicare enrollment period a few months a year.
     
  5. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I just received a notice from Blue Cross/Blue Shield that my private health care plan will no longer be available due to The Affordable Care Act. It costs me $440.11 per month for family coverage. However, they say a new plan will takeover, and I will still be covered. The new monthly premium will be $850.97. Almost double. I don't know what is wrong with you delusional liberals, but Obamacare is a disaster.
     
  6. lynnlynn

    lynnlynn New Member

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    Sorry you are wrong, only 3 states will see lower rates and that is only because they were charging more that all other states.
     
  7. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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  8. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Republican equates Obamacare with the "illegality" of the Fugitive Slave Act:


    http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/10/01-1



    GOP's Most Shameful Shutdown Moment
    There are many candidates, but comparing Obamacare to the Fugitive Slave Act takes the prize




    Republicans in the House of Representatives have shut down the United States government – and are threatening to throw the nation into default – as part of their ongoing strategy to defund Obamacare. But is the Affordable Care Act, which went into effect today, really the sort of dreadful legislation that warrants such potentially economy-shattering measures? Most Americans don’t think so, but extreme rightwingers, in a continuing effort to justify their risky tactics, have compared Obamacare to the worst depredations in the history of government.

    In what may be the party’s lowest moment throughout this debacle, Republican State Representative William O’Brien of New Hampshire, said Obamacare is every bit as bad as the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850. President Obama naturally scoffed at the very idea, but O’Brien defended the analogy. “Just as the Fugitive Slave Act was an overreach by the federal government,” he told the Manchester Union Leader, “so too we understand that Obamacare is an assault on the rights of individuals.” That claim explains a lot about right wing thinking, where callousness toward universal health care is exceeded only by ignorance of slavery.

    Perhaps the phrase “just as” can be used as an incantation in Tea Party rhetoric, magically tying their own narrow political goals to universal values. But in the real world – the one informed by actual history and human experience – there is no meaningful similarity between slavery and health insurance (apart from the fact that both have been the subject of federal legislation). The very comparison is deeply insulting to human rights. Slavery was an evil system of unspeakable brutality, while national health insurance, at the very worst, involves a little bit of additional bureaucracy.

    According to O’Brien, the Fugitive Slave Act violated states rights “to determine their policies as to slavery,” as though that was the greatest problem with the law. Completely missing from his tone-deaf analysis was any consideration of the impact on the fugitives themselves. Black people, not states, were the real victims of the Fugitive Slave Act. In the hope that O’Brien and his friends might be educated about the difference, here is what they need to know about American history.

    The compulsory rendition of fugitive slaves dates to the founding of the Republic, having been included in Article IV of the Constitution with virtually no objection from northern delegates, including the two from New Hampshire. The first Fugitive Slave Act was passed in 1793, when the issue was referred to Congress by President Washington. The law was enhanced in the Compromise of 1850 at the insistence of southern political leaders, as a condition of maintaining the Union. (Other provisions of the Compromise included the admission of California as a free state and the national assumption of Texas’s enormous debt – the latter act of federal generosity is now seemingly forgotten by Ted Cruz and Rick Perry).

    The 1850 statue was beyond subhuman. It allowed slavehunters to seize virtually any black person on the basis of a flimsy description and the one-sided certification of a southern court. Once arrested, the alleged fugitives were brought before federal commissioners, but they were prohibited from testifying in their own defense, could not demand jury trials, and were denied the right to appeal. As planned, well over ninety percent of captured African Americans – including many who had been born free or manumitted – were swiftly dragged back into slavery.
     
  9. Geau74

    Geau74 Member Past Donor

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    My health insurance is $871/mo. for just my wife and me, and we each have a $5500.00 yearly deductible. We are basically self insured for $871/mo. Can't get any worse than that! Come on Obamacare!
     
  10. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It will be a disaster. It is already proving so.
     
  11. Geau74

    Geau74 Member Past Donor

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    Well, how so? From my perspective, the health insurance system and industry cannot get any worse.
     
  12. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Obamacare is raising premiums across the board. Obama consistently lies about reducing premiums. Healthcare will be rationed. There will be boards that will decide what is acceptable treatment. The government will have its nose in your personal business. Healthcare needed some tweaking to make it better, not Obamacare.
     
  13. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    How Obamacare Will Save The Federal Government $190 Billion


    http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/23/2821251/obamacare-save-federal-government-190-billion/


    Lower than projected premiums under the Affordable Care Act will save the federal government $190 billion over 10 years and increase the law’s deficit reduction by 174 percent to almost $300 billion, a new analysis from the Center for American Progress has found. The report, from Topher Spiro and Jonathan Gruber, bolsters President Obama’s claims on Monday that despite the ongoing technical problems surrounding HealthCare.gov, “the product of the Affordable Care Act for people without health insurance is quality health insurance that’s affordable.”

    In fact, the emergence of new insurers and increased competition within the law’s marketplaces has lowered premiums below Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projections from March of 2012. While the nonpartisan office estimated that the average second-lowest-cost individual silver plan premiums would cost $4,700 in 2014, the actual average premium turned out to be $3,936 or “16 percent lower than projected.” The savings are significant because the law pegs its tax credits to the cost of the second-lowest silver plan. “If premiums for that plan are lower, then the cost of tax credits will also be lower,” the report argues. Here is why:

    Consider a typical individual making $30,000 a year. That individual’s premium contribution would be capped at 8.37 percent of income, or $2,512. If the premium for the second-lowest-cost silver plan is $4,700, then the tax credit would be the difference between this premium and the individual’s contribution, or $2,188. But if the premium for the second-lowest-cost silver plan turns out to be only $3,936, then the tax credit would be $1,424.

    “[A] 16 percent reduction in premiums will lower the total cost of tax credits by about 21 percent” or $190 billion dollars, Spiro and Gruber calculate. They also note that lower premiums will make insurance more affordable for the uninsured, expanding coverage to an additional 700,000 people.

    While the Obama administration has yet to release the number of people who have successfully enrolled in coverage in the 36 states where the federal government is operating health care exchanges, it estimates that 476,000 individuals have begun applying for coverage through federal and state exchanges. Enrollment figures from states operating their own exchanges are also promising.

    The CBO predicts that seven million people will sign up for insurance in the health care exchanges between October and March, including 2.7 million young and healthy people. Administration officials expressed confidence on Monday that they expect to meet their targets despite the ongoing website glitches.





    As people return to work after getting medical treatment, they will pay taxes and increase productivity which pays for the costs of Health care. Therefore, contrary to the endless lies of the delusional right wing, health care reform is affordable in the USA just as it is throughout the world.


    :flagus:
     
  14. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, things will happen just like Obama says it will. How rosy. Just like every other government-run program.
     
  15. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How To Opt Out of ObamaCare Without Paying the Fine:

    Less than two-hours ago, I submitted a revised W-4 form to our payroll department. My goal is to avoid being in a position where at the end of next year I am owed a refund from the federal government. As an act of civil disobedience, I am refusing to purchase health insurance. This means that I am subject to a tax/fine of 1% of my income (2% the following year, 2.5% thereafter). But the beautiful thing is that unless I am owed a tax refund, the government will never get any of that money.

    My decision to not purchase health insurance is a decision a lot of people -- possibly millions -- are going to make, either out of protest, or once the ObamaCare site is up and running and they finally get a look at the increased cost of their monthly premiums under the Orwellian-named Affordable Care Act. Purely by coincidence, during his radio show today, Rush Limbaugh went into great detail about all of this:

    Anyway, [my accountant] said to me that, according to the law, the only way that the government can collect the fine or penalty for you not buying insurance is if you are owed a tax refund. If you do not owe a tax refund, they cannot go into your bank account or anywhere else and get that money. Now, the sad thing is that most people file their taxes to get a refund 'cause they think they're screwing the government, and they're not. …
    Therefore, the only way that they can collect the penalty or the fine is by taking money from your refund. If you are not owed a refund, they cannot get money from you. They can't issue a lien. They can't garnish your wages. They can't use any of the normal procedures available to them if you owe them money, even though the Supreme Court has said it's a tax. So for those of us -- I mean, folks, I'm in fat city. I'm in fat city because I always structure to where I owe money. Well, not entirely. There have been years. But if you structure your taxes so that you do not get a refund, you do not have to buy insurance and you do not have to pay a fine 'cause they can't collect it from you if you don't have a refund due.
    And that is just another nail in the coffin of Obamacare imploding on itself.

    Limbaugh also points out that in order for ObamaCare to succeed, the program needs to coerce a few million young, healthy suckers into paying for something they do not need. Like me (a healthy 47-year-old), all we want and need is a catastrophic plan in case the unthinkable happens. But Obama has outlawed affordable catastrophic plans and is using the mandate/fine/tax as a way to force us into paying for services like maternity, vision, dental, mental health, and drug and alcohol treatment.

    According to the CBO, up to 20 million people could lose their health insurance because the plan they are currently happy with (and Obama repeatedly promised they could keep) has been made illegal under ObamaCare. There is little doubt that these ObamaCare victims are going to face higher premium costs that they might not be able to afford, or just don't think are worth the potential of a 50% to 150% premium increase with a higher deductible.

    For those of you who -- for whatever reason -- will not be buying health insurance next year, remember that you legally do not have to pay that fine if you legally make sure that at the end of the year you are not owed a refund from the federal government.

    Fight the Power.

    Source

    [​IMG]
     
  16. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    Where did you get that idea a relative who is an IRS lawyer already worked on the ACA protects PROPERTY they cannot take and sell goods you own and they cannot send you to jail for non-payment. But money and other things not in those areas they can do she said these are likely actions when the debt gets high enough:

    1. Raid bank and savings accounts.

    2. Dock your pay.

    3. Put a LIEN on your car or house, its not taking the property just locks it up in limbo that is not forbidden.

    4. Sock your credit rating.

    5. Go after your tax returns (if any).

    6. If you are ordered to pay from a judge and refuse, they can arrest you for "contempt of Court" but this is not an assured option they would need to set a precedent base for that.

    In short money they can go after, property cannot take but can do anything short of that and can get you in jail for things other than not paying this fine possibly but would need a base of positive court actions.
     
  17. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Find an unbiased source. Mother Jones is about as far to the left as any magazine that exists in the U.S. It's hardly an objective source, especially considering it's quoting a Whitehouse.gov source. My guess is that, just like unemployment data, the revised data will be much less favorable to the President.
     
  18. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Well, yes and no. Yes, they won't go after you for not paying the ACA tax penalty. But, no, you will still owe it, and will be charged interest for not paying it, and it will accumulate year after year. You just won't have to face any kind of penalty for not paying it. The other thing is that you have to make sure that you pay enough taxes to avoid the "estimated tax penalty."
     
  19. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Not in this case, they can't. The person still owes the government the money, but "In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section," Section 1501 of the Affordable Care Act reads, "Such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure." The taxpayer still owes the tax, but other than the money (and interest) they can't be touched. They will build up a tab, and to do this successfully, they will have to carefully balance between no refund and paying enough minimum tax.
     
  20. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That will be really popular with the American people.
     
  21. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The ACA also makes our already crazy tax code, even crazier. You will see a resurgence in creative accounting, audits, etc.
     
  22. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Most sign-ups are for Medicaid, not private health insurance.
     
  23. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    If it's to the left it writes the TRUTH that the Fo卐 network refuses to publish.
     

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