Oceans have acidified more in the last 200 years than they did in the previous 21,000

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by livefree, Jan 23, 2012.

  1. livefree

    livefree Banned

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    More research has come out highlighting the dangers of global warming's evil twin, ocean acidification. The health of the oceans is at severe risk from pollution and overfishing already so the damage from the accumulating acidification threatens the whole marine ecology which in turn threatens a significant part of mankind's food sources.

    Oceans have acidified more in the last 200 years than they did in the previous 21,000 years
    Daily Mail
    23rd January 2012
    (excerpts)

    Man-made carbon emissions have acidified the world's oceans far beyond their natural levels, new research suggests. In some regions, acidity levels rose faster in the last two centuries than it did in the previous 21,000 years, a study from the University of Hawaii has shown. Ocean acidity makes it harder for organisms such as molluscs and coral to construct the protective layers they need to survive.

    Dr Tobias Friedrich, from the University of Hawaii, who led the study published in the journal Nature Climate Change, said: 'Any significant drop below the minimum level of aragonite to which the organisms have been exposed to for thousands of years and have successfully adapted will very likely stress them and their associated ecosystems. 'In some regions, the man-made rate of change in ocean acidity since the industrial revolution is 100 times greater than the natural rate of change between the Last Glacial Maximum and pre-industrial times.' He added: 'When Earth started to warm 17,000 years ago, terminating the last glacial period, atmospheric CO2 (carbon dioxide) levels rose from 190 parts per million (ppm) to 280 ppm over 6,000 years. Marine ecosystems had ample time to adjust. Now, for a similar rise in CO2 concentration to the present level of 392 ppm, the adjustment time is reduced to only 100 - 200 years.'

    Co-author Professor Axel Timmermann, also from the University of Hawaii, said: 'Our results suggest that severe reductions are likely to occur in coral reef diversity, structural complexity and resilience by the middle of this century.'
     
  2. livefree

    livefree Banned

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    Here some background on this grave threat to the health of the Earth's oceans and mankind's food supplies that is called 'ocean acidification'.

    What is Ocean Acidification?
    NOAA

    Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, the pH of surface ocean waters has fallen by 0.1 pH units. Since the pH scale, like the Richter scale, is logarithmic, this change represents approximately a 30 percent increase in acidity. Future predictions indicate that the oceans will continue to absorb carbon dioxide and become even more acidic. Estimates of future carbon dioxide levels, based on business as usual emission scenarios, indicate that by the end of this century the surface waters of the ocean could be nearly 150 percent more acidic, resulting in a pH that the oceans haven’t experienced for more than 20 million years.



    How will ocean acidification affect marine life?
    (excerpts)

    Corals, calcareous phytoplankton, mussels, snails, sea urchins and other marine organisms use calcium (Ca) and carbonate (CO3) in seawater to construct their calcium carbonate (CaCO3) shells or skeletons. As the pH decreases, carbonate becomes less available, which makes it more difficult for organisms to secrete CaCO3 to form their skeletal material. For animals in general, including invertebrates and some fish, CO2 accumulation and lowered pH may result in acidosis, or a build up of carbonic acid in the organism's body fluids. This can lead to lowered immune response, metabolic depression, behavioural depression affecting physical activity and reproduction, and asphyxiation. Since the oceans have never experienced such a rapid acidification, it is not clear if ecosystems have the ability to adapt to these changes (1,2). Effects of ocean acidification on organisms and ecosystems are still poorly understood. Over the last few years, research has intensified significantly to fill the many knowledge gaps.

    Corals?

    Nearly 500 million people depend on healthy coral reefs for sustenance, coastal protection, renewable resources, and tourism, with an estimated 30 million of the world's poorest people depending entirely on the reefs for food (3).

    Coral reefs face two challenges from increasing atmospheric CO2. First, higher CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere are linked to warmer global temperatures, which in turn lead to warmer water temperatures. Corals are very sensitive to temperature change: a 1–2º C change in local temperature above their normal summer maximum can lead to a phenomenon called ‘bleaching’, whereby the corals expel their vital algal symbionts (algae which live in the cells of the coral), leaving the coral tissues translucent. In 1998, a single bleaching event led to the loss of almost 20% of the world’s living coral. Corals can recover from these events but repeated episodes are likely to weaken the coral ecosystem, making them more susceptible to disease and causing a loss of biodiversity. The second challenge faced by corals is the increasing acidity of the water caused by higher CO2 concentrations (4). Lowered calcification rates affect the reef ’s ability to grow its carbonate skeleton, leading to slower growth of the reef and a more fragile structural support, which makes it more vulnerable to erosion. By the middle of this century, the estimated reduction in calcification rates may lead to more reef area erosion than can be rebuilt through new calcification (5).
    [/QUOTE]
     
  3. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Uncle Ferd says ocean gonna turn acidy an' burn a hole clean through to China - is called the China Syndrome...
    :fart:
    Study: Ocean Acidity Exceeds Natural Norms
    January 25, 2012 - Rapidly rising CO2 emissions change ocean chemistry
     
  4. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    Warmers are getting nowhere with AGW, so they shift gears on their attempts at deception to acidification.

    But the "remedy" remains the same: More taxes, more regulations, and sticking it to the American consumer.
     
  5. livefree

    livefree Banned

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    Any paranoid conspiracy theories that involve a deliberate deception perpetrated by almost all of the Earth's scientists, are extremely insane and completely divorced from reality.

    This cult of anti-science reality denial that has captured so many rightwingers is a bizarre manifestation of America's crazy propaganda driven political system and the extreme and undue influence the fossil fuel industry has over the government and the media

    The scientific evidence for AGW and ocean acidification is overwhelming to any rational person so the propagandists have worked to diminish public confidence in the validity of the science and smear the integrity of the scientists. This approach seems to have worked fairly well with the less intelligent and less educated sections of the population, particularly with those who were raised fundamentalist or evangelical since they were taught that their religion trumps science in the matter of evolution. The fossil fuel industry, as a whole, does not want to give up their trillion dollar a year profit stream even though mounting evidence indicates that continuing to burn fossil fuels will destroy the Earth's ecosystems and quite possibly our civilization. The US military, a rather hard headed bunch, consider global warming and climate changes to be a major threat to world security. But I guess, for the rightwingnuts, even the military is in on the 'conspiracy'.
     
  6. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    "Science" has discredited itself.

    After the failure to clean house after ClimateGate 1.0 and 2.0, what right do politicized "scientists" have to expect anyone to believe what they say?

    Until there is major housecleaning, "science" is no more credible than MSNBC.
     
  7. Playswellwithothers

    Playswellwithothers New Member

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    or Fox News... just throwing it out there
     
  8. MisLed

    MisLed New Member

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    Carbon dioxide is natural and i suspect this is all part of a normal natural process. Secondly, scientists haven't been measuring acidity for the past 200 years and certainly not for the last 2000. SO. I'm thinking this is more globaloney. Just another shot at the rest of us to scare us into thinking we GOTTA do something drastic. I think the oceans have become acidic and then alkaline many times over since the beginning of time. More than likely this is just the result of the volcanoes and the catastrophe in japan last year.
     
  9. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And denialists cannot grasp basic science

    See? I can play that game too!
     
  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    So got an explanation for the "natural process"?

    Ahem - yes we can measure acidity - try coral cores, fossil records and even the fact that 200 years ago we actually knew about acids and alkali's

    We also know chemistry

    [​IMG]
     
  11. MisLed

    MisLed New Member

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    Figures lie and liars figure. We've already seen that these guys are not above manipulating data and they analyze to reach the conclusion that they've already determined. Point is: It's More likely that these fluctuations are normal. Otherwise. WHAT exactly would you like done?
     
  12. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    "These guys" sorry but how can THOUSANDS of scientists ALL be in on this "conspiracy" - this is basic bloody CHEMISTRY! It is not climate science but high school chemistry!!

    As the CO2 in the atmosphere rises so will the oceans acidify - how can that be a conspiracy?
     
  13. livefree

    livefree Banned

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    That's the crazy bullshyt myth that you've been bamboozled into swallowing but it is as wacko as the rest of the anti-science denier cult nonsense, misinformation and lies that the fossil fuel industry has pushed into your brain.

    It is you denier cultists who have no credibility. You are shown to be liars or deluded dupes all the time.
     
  14. livefree

    livefree Banned

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    Carbon dioxide is, of course, 'natural' but the high levels of CO2 in the atmosphere, that mankind has created by burning millions of years of sequestered carbon in just a century or so, are definitely not 'natural' to the world human civilization evolved in. You make it plain that you are very ignorant about science and have no idea just how scientists determine things like the composition of the atmosphere in ancient times, but then you imagine that if you can't understand it, then it must be phony. LOLOLOL. Your comments are just clueless drivel without any meaning or significance.
     
  15. livefree

    livefree Banned

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    More of those idiotic denier cult myths and futile attempts to smear the scientists. Multiple investigations by independent groups verified that there was no fraudulent manipulation of the data, as your cult's myths mistakenly claim happened. The raw data is still available and has been repeatedly analyzed by many different groups who all get the same results. There is nothing 'normal' about what is going on with the Earth's climate.
     
  16. MisLed

    MisLed New Member

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    and your solutions are? Shall we go dump a load of Baking Soda into the ocean for ya?
     
  17. MisLed

    MisLed New Member

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  18. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    The trouble with relying on blogs for information is that they are more often full of monkey (*)(*)(*)(*) than any real facts

    This is a Furphy, although calling it a complete lie would be closer to the truth

    BTW - still waiting on how basic chemistry can be a conspiracy
     
  19. MisLed

    MisLed New Member

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    Perhaps you've missed the debunking of these scientists and their findings for the past two years...even current with the above link i posted..just a few posts up? It isn't my responsibility to prove anything. it's yours. Or those scientists who's flawed research you are so willing to take with no research or weighing of the evidence.

    Since you've got it all in control....WHAT is your solution? Is that baking powder thing sounding good to you?
     
  20. MannieD

    MannieD New Member

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  21. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Daily Mail is a near-tabloid with a penchant for making things up, as they did throughout that article. Let's look at the flaws.

    1. The cite the reputable UK Met Office ... but never actually say what data they're citing, or present it in any way. The Met has never said or implied that temperatures have stopped increasing. The Daily Mail just made that claim up.

    2. 1997 is a brazen cherrypick, a record El Nino year. Temperatures have been rising steadily for the past 15 years. Lying-by-cherrypick only impresses denialist true believers.

    3. They then conclude the flat temp trend (the one that doesn't exist) is due to a decrease in solar activity. Except, again, the temperature trend was increasing. Which causes trouble for denialists. Temperatures were rising as solar activity fell, thus proving changes in solar activity aren't the primary driver of temperature change.

    4. To top it off, they quote the pet theories of various D-list fringe cranks.

    Good job by the Daily Mail in disproving their own points. And denialists won't care. The piece told them what they wanted to hear, therefore they believe, period.
     
  22. livefree

    livefree Banned

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    We "missed" it because it never happened except in the fevered imaginations of the bamboozled and duped denier cultists. In reality, what everyone saw was an attempt by the fossil fuel industry propagandists to falsely smear the scientists and wrongly cast doubt on the validity of what is actually very sound science in their efforts to prevent any effective action to limit carbon emissions and, consequently, their profits. You fell for it. Most people with any ability to understand the science didn't fall for it. None of the other scientists in the world fell for it. Pretty much only those folks with little education or intelligence or those with a vested interest in the profits of the oil corps fell for that drivel.
     
  23. TheHat

    TheHat Well-Known Member

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    Let's ask the logical:

    Say the ocean is more acidic now.

    How the (*)(*)(*)(*) are you gonna do anything about it? Let's hear it. How do you stop an entire planet from maintaining itself?
     
  24. livefree

    livefree Banned

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    'Logic' without accurate facts to work with is worthless. Just like your posts.

    The oceans are getting more acidic because of the extra CO2 that mankind has added to the atmosphere which is being absorbed by the oceans. The more fossil carbon we add to the air, the worse the problem will get. What we do about it is to stop burning fossil fuels and adding even more CO2 to the atmosphere and oceans.
     
  25. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    COme on - outline your "logic" for us


    Beyond "I can't believe it!"


    What part of simple chemistry do you not believe - especially chemistry that you meet on a daily basis.

    Add CO2 to water and you end up with a carbonated drink - one that is slightly acidic because carbonic acid is only a weak acid. Want to test that theory? Stick some sodium bicarb into a bottle of soda water

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonation

    Carbon dioxide level in the atmosphere goes up - the level in the oceans go up and the oceans become more acidic

    This is not climate science folks but elementary chemistry
     

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