Okinawa slams US rape case, calls for treaty review

Sadly (even though we really do prosecute it; really) it is almost never reported outside of the units CO or a high ranking NCO. The accuser (victim) is usually either pressured into not pressing charges, dropping charges or admitting a mistake.

 

I know.

The figures are shocking.

And for each time they are ignored, excused, and swept under the carpet - you may as well have a recruitement drive aimed at convicted rapists and sex offenders.

 

So how would you address that culture, Archer, if you were given the job to do so, within 5 yrs?

 

Well it is really about information and SOPs. There is no need to report this to a CO or ranking NCO within ones unit. These things get covered up too easily. I would set up a hotline to the regional command offices with a section set up that answers to the pentagon with a direct civilian oversight board.

I would set up mandatory punishments and also allow (if convicted) the person in question to face trial and if convicted punishment by the offended nation if the rape was on a non US civilian.

 

It is well known that rape is more common among military units then, lets say the normal population. This is also the case in colleges, by way of example. This is not specifically a US thing. The reality is that sexual abuse more often takes place when young men are proving themselves and the group dynamic that makes this possible is present. This makes it possible for them to objectify women.

 

The comparitive dynamic you describe is undoubtably a component. But significantly it is the dehumanizing nature inherent to the culture of the military that lends itself to particularly disproportionate incidences of rape.

 

You know what I get tired of.

This idea that somehow, if I were placed in a 'certain set of circumstances', then I too may turn into a man that rapes a child of 12, murders both their parents, then sets the bodies on fire.

Or that I too may rape a female colleague.

I know my own heart, and I know my own mind. There are no conditions that woud turn me into that, none. If I witnessed it, I would turn my gun on the rapists, and shoot, if need be.

 

@TMR.

This below is, quite franky, unacceptable, as well.

I refuse to believe that more cannot be done about this.

Get rid of that 'not proven' verdict, one is either guilty or not.

I cannot see a benefit to having 'not proven', can you?

Scandal of rape trial escape clause as it is revealed one in five sex attack cases in Scotland end 'not proven'
SCOTLAND has one of the lowest rape conviction rates in Europe, with many believing the centuries-old not proven verdict should be axed.


FIFTH of men tried for rape in Scotland walk free on the not proven verdict, the Daily Record reveals today.

Campaigners claim the ruling is an “easy option” for juries – and an escape clause for attackers.

Sandy Brindley, of Rape Crisis Scotland, said: “The verdict is a halfway house. It doesn’t mean the jury haven’t believed the complainer.

“But it’s still an acquittal and devastating for victims.” Pressure mounted for the verdict to be scrapped as figures showed that 21 per cent of rape trials in Scotland in the past five years resulted in not proven verdicts.

Sandy added: “My worry is that not proven gives a jury an easy get out and they don’t have to make a difficult choice about whether or not someone is guilty.

“As much as you can say to the victim, ‘You have been believed’, it doesn’t take away from the fact that the person is walking the streets.”

There are five times more not proven verdicts in rape cases than in murder trials.

It is believed that the circumstances of rape cases – where men often claim that sex was consensual – often sway juries to the not proven verdict.

Sandy added: “We don’t know if jurors could convict if they didn’t have the not proven option.”

Figures obtained from the Scottish Government through a freedom of information request show that 388 rape suspects went on trial in Scotland from 2006/07 until 2010/11.

Eighty-three of them walked free after jurors returned the not proven verdict.

That compares to 14 of 333 people on trial for murder over the same period.

Annmarie Campbell, of the East Kilbride-based Sexual Assault Victims Initiative, said: “I have seen the not proven verdict destroy victims and also seen their whole faith in the legal system destroyed.

“I have helped many overcome severe self-harm and suicide attempts as a result.

“Not only do they feel they have been violated twice – once by the perpetrator and once through the legal process – but they live in fear of their perpetrator coming after them.

“There are some similarities in outcomes to the not guilty verdict. But the not proven verdict seems to impact more deeply on the victims.”

Scotland is unique in having the centuries-old not proven verdict on top of guilty and not guilty options.

Glasgow University law professor James Chalmers believes the third option should be axed.

He added: “Rape cases almost invariably tend to be one person’s word against the other’s, with the accused saying there was consent and the complainer saying the opposite.

“I suspect there’s a reluctance of jury members not to label someone a liar, especially someone who has been raped. But sometimes they just don’t believe the case has been proven beyond reasonable doubt.

“The verdict should go because there’s no difference between not proven and not guilty. It just
confuses matters.”

Sandy believes that some jurors opt for not proven if they judge that the alleged victim may have been in some way partly culpable because they had been drunk, flirting or wearing revealing clothes.


She added: “Our worry is that negative attitudes in relation to rape, women’s sexuality and behaviour is having an influence on decisions and leading to wrongful acquittals.

“In jury decision-making, there’s a worry that often decisions are based on impressions, how the jury assess the demeanour of victim or the complainer.

“It can be quite contradictory, because women will say to us, ‘I won’t cry and give him the satisfaction’.

“They will try to stay strong in the witness box – but the jury expect them to break down and be in pieces.

“It’s extremely traumatic giving evidence in a rape trial.

“If there’s a conviction at the end of it, at least the victim gets justice. For those who go through all that and then have a not proven verdict, it can be devastating.

“Seven per cent of rapes reported to the police lead to a conviction. Nobody could say that the other 93 per cent of women and men are lying.

Scotland has one of the lowest rape conviction rates in Europe.

Critics believe this is down to a dependence on corroboration – meaning that at least two different and independent sources of evidence are required to support each crucial fact.

Rape often involves only two witnesses – the accused and complainer – so corroboration is impossible.

Two years ago, Lord Advocate Frank Mulholland called for a review of the way rape is proved in Scotland.

And following a recent review of Scots law by Lord Carloway, Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill is now looking at abolishing the corroboration requirement.

Last night, MacAskill pledged to implement changes to the law designed to improve conviction rates for rape.

He said: “Those who suffer as victims of crime must be treated with dignity and respect.

“We will be making a radical overhaul of criminal procedure based on the report of Lord Carloway.

“When we weigh up the evidence for or against the law of corroboration, we’ll take into account not just the views of the judiciary but those of Victim Support Scotland, Rape Crisis and other organisations representing the voices of victims.”

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scandal-of-rape-trial-escape-clause-1391971

 

You're very sure of yourself. Personally I like to think that I'm one of the nicest creatures on earth. Yet I am not sure that under other circumstances I couldn't turn into a beast. Humans are a scary sort of animal. It's been proven time and time again.

 

Yes, I am CERTAIN that nothing could turn me into this...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...raqi-killed-family-spared-death-sentence.html

Imo, you cannot be made into that, you are that.

 

See, and this is where we differ. I totally agree that what this young man did was atrocious and horrible beyond words. But I don't think he was born any more or less evil than you or me. If that was the case you'd just have to shrug your shoulders and say: "Nothing can be done about that". I think something can be done about that. The layer of civilization is a thin one, but we can work to make it thicker.

 

In all honesty, I think we're ready to leave Japan. We already have a ton of forces in South Korea, so we don't really need bases in Japan to operate from.

Korea is a more relevant area for us to be in anyway, because of the tensions with North Korea.

 

Evil is not a psychiatric term, it does not exist, and we should maybe approach it in a psychological way.

I am not sayin he was 'born evil or a rapist'.

That said, many mental disorders can be genetic, so we cannot rule out the fact, that sometimes, one may simply be born without the same capacity for empathy etc.

Then social factors may play a part, but the bottom line is that I do not believe you could take me, and place me under any set of conditions, in which I would rape a colleague.

I just do not have it in me.

A number of years ago, I was bored, to took off, and ran a club, in the Canaries.

Well, height of the summer, you really do see it all, fights, shagging in the street, drugs, a real eye opener.

I would finish my shift at around 5am, them meet the other workers, for a drink.

On at least two occasions, I was walking back to my beach apartment, and came across girls of about 16-20.

Lying asleep or drunk, in the street.

You have to understand how dangerous that is, on so many levels.

Not only did it never cross my mind to take advantage, despite being shattered, and wanting to go home, I would get them to their feet, find out what hotel they were at, get a taxi, and go back with them in the taxi, because the drivers there are unregulated, and are a risk.

I know about the S'ford experiment etc, I appreciate where you are at, but take it from me, even if you demanded that I kill a kid, at gunpoint, I would spit in your face, and if you fired, well, we all have to die some day, some way.

And if you didn't, I would take the gun, and shoot both your legs out.

 

Very honourable behaviour on your side. Thing is: the Canaries (just as Okinawa by the way) aren’t a war-zone.

Now if you take the biggest war in the past century, the atrocities and mass rapings that took place can't merely be explained by mental disorders. The enormous scale of the atrocities (in this and all other wars) indicates that war can make utterly normal people snap.

One reason why Germans at the end of the war were desperate to fall into American rather than into Russians hands was that you were less likely to get raped and killed. Not because Americans were less prone to mental illness than Russians, but because Russians had experienced the war under much harsher circumstances, had much more reason for revenge and because back then American officers were more likely to keep ‘good discipline’. Something they clearly have to work harder on in the wars they’re engaged in now. The fact that people like Manning rot in jail right now rather than those who committed and covered the July 12, 2007 Baghdad airstrike he blew the whistle on, shows that they’re nowhere near to up their game. (After having watched the debate tonight I fear they may lower it further if they vote for the Republican puppet)

It is of course possible that you’d be one of the very few heroic saint-like people who could uphold humane principles in spite of all indoctrination, fear and animalistic instincts. Sadly the history of my country shows that most people couldn’t. And they weren’t all insane. Perfectly normal people with a perfectly normal capacity for empathy ended up as mass murderers, and I can’t be sure that I would not have been one of them had I been born 50 years earlier.

 

Well, short of creating an entirely artificial set of conditions, then putting me into them, I can only go with my heart, and my own mind.

Those females in the US forces that are victims of sexual assault, their attackers just rapists, taking advantage of apparently lax conditions.

Lax conditions lend themselves to more deviants.

You have to lay down standards.

I would execute anyone that raped or ill treated a POW of war, on my watch, for instance.

 

I think life-long prison will suffice. Other than that I agree.

 

Quick response to Okinawa rape case...

Okinawa governor says US response quick on rape case
Thu, Oct 25, 2012 - The governor of Japan’s southern island chain of Okinawa on Tuesday welcomed the “quick” US response to an alleged rape by servicemen of a local woman, saying Washington was taking the case seriously.

 

Jack I know rape and abuse victims (both of them) and I can say rape can be the murder of ones soul. I agree! Kill them. They made a conscious effort to force themselves on the woman and they should pay. Now I am only speaking of forcible rape where it can be proved. You cant rape the willing and some rape laws need to be looked at and changed to a lesser charge.

 

What's with all this idiocy about Japan having no protection if the US leaves?

Japan has an outstanding military and it's extremely high tech. It's just "legally" according to it's constitution a self-defense force and can't attack anything unless attacked first. Which pretty much should be how most militaries operate.

 

Good point with this part.

That's a different sort of scenario, as there now appears to be cases in which if a female is v drunk, it can be argued that she did not give consent.

The only advice I can give to blokes there - if this is some girl you have met in a bar, and she is that drunk, leave well alone.

For one thing, it is not attractive ( a very drunk women), and for another thing, you are putting yourself at risk.

However, as to cases like that guy who raped the 14 yr old kid in Iraq, murdered her parents, and then her - he should be shot.

You cannot rehabilitate these bastards.

There are some actions that you can never come back from, imo.

 

Agreed. Forced rape is unforgivable. Murder can be forgiven depending on circumstances. A rage comes with murder many times the circumstances lead to it. What can a person do to be raped? I mean really what offense to another human can make one want to do such a thing? I would kill a woman before I raped her. I also would not kill a woman unless I had good reason such as her being a threat to my family.

 

Someone must be serioulsy wrong in the head to rape someone.

It is just not something normal people do.

I don't even see it as a sexual thing, entirely, if it were, then it would be easy to go hire an escort, if one must.

I think it is a dominance thing, hence why, in some hard core prisons, you get what appear to be hetro men, raping other men.