Parents who tried to pray away illness charged with murder

Abso-(*)(*)(*)(*)in-lutely...

EDIT: It wouldn't let me rep you, so, here's an applause...



and a donut...



lol

 

bahahaha thanks bro, the donut will go great with my coffee lol.

 

Thanks for repeating yourself . It makes you seem more intelligent every time . If you think cases don't set precedents than I understand that you and a few others don't see the big picture . For this case it worked out well , hopefully they are all so cut and dry in the future with easy medical cases that have easy solutions and answers . Lord knows the average person can't think outside of the cookie cutter mentality . Now , go ahead and insult me and talk about how I don't understand .

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Yes , because we all know that every case is cookie cutter and nothing ever challenges our law and practices . We live in a black and white world with no shades of gray . Tell me again about my jibber jabber , it's really interesting and on topic .

 

The 'clue' in this case is the parents are religious zealots who believed they could pray the pneumonia out of both kids. The death of their 1st child didn't teach them anything, so they let the 8 month old die.......

Speaking about freedom - do you really believe that if one of these zealots broke a leg, had a bad accident, bleeding wouldn't stop, had a helluva toothache that wouldn't stop, vision was going blurry, fell and fractured their head causing severe headaches, a raging fever that left them weak & dizzy, their hand was chopped off - any number of accidents - they wouldn't take their worthless ass to the doctor? Of course they would. They have the freedom to make decisions about their own health and well being... they don't want to die, but they'll let their children die......

 

This is not parents opting to not go through chemotherapy which stands a small chance of working and instead trusting alternative medicine. This is not parents opting not to give their child the best treatment to a rare disease where the cure is iffy. This is parents not giving their child simple treatment to a common, easily treated disease - treatment with incredibly high success rates. This is an incredibly straightforward case of manslaughter. If these parents withheld treatment for any other reason, this would not be a discussion at all. Your right to believe what you want to believe does not mean you get to withhold life-saving, reliable treatment from your children. I would have charged these people with criminal negligence and negligent homicide right from the get-go. There is no reasonable argument to be made that these people are not guilty of at least that. Not after the second time.

There is a massive bevy of illnesses that used to kill many, many children. Pneumonia. Typhoid. Tetanus. Measles. Mumps. Rubella. Whooping Cough. (Last four are making a comeback - thank you, Jenny Mc(*)(*)(*)(*)ingCarthy.) Hell, even Eczema. You know why you don't hear from all that many grieving parents who lost their children to eczema or pneumonia? I'll tell you why - because those diseases are highly treatable. When your child gets pneumonia, you should be worried, and you should reach for treatment, but serious or chronic harm is incredibly unlikely... Assuming you actually get decent treatment!

 

The problem with this, of course, is that Pneumonia isn't some rare cancer with a tiny survival rate with chemo. It's (*)(*)(*)(*)ing pneumonia! An easily treatable disease. And they didn't opt for some experimental cure. They opted for prayer, which is at this point basically proven to be worth about as much as a sugar pill is. There are limits to religious freedom. You do not get to murder someone, then claim your religion allows it and get away. My point is, when it comes to known, proven cures to common, potentially lethal diseases or conditions, there is no excuse. No. (*)(*)(*)(*)ing. Excuse.. To refuse to give your child that care. I don't care if it's because your religion forbids it (dear Jehova's Witnesses and Christian Scientists: (*)(*)(*)(*) you), or because you believe in insane naturopathic concoctions that aren't proven to work, or because you're clinically insane and think aliens will abduct anyone who takes an antibiotic, you have NO EXCUSE.

 

This is more the dicussion I am interested in . How do you think illnesses should classified and by whom ? I agree that pneumonia is quite easy , but where does it start getting a lite harder ?

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Wouldn't murder require intent with malice ? What about neg homicide of a child ?

 

I don't know. I'd personally leave that decision up to who it should always be up to: qualified medical professionals. I'd personally say any disease for which there is treatment with a more than 80% success rate (with high certainty of this statistic result) should be pretty much made mandatory - or rather, that parents who opt for alternative cures that cannot be demonstrated to have similar success rates should very well be on the hook for negligent homicide in virtually every case, religious beliefs or not.

Boy I wish this wasn't true. I'd love to see them in prison for quite a long time over this, but it probably won't happen.

 

this is pure stupidity and it directly lead to the death of a child. this goes beyond child abuse. people like this have no business living or having any chance in hell of bringing another child into their lives.

im tolerant of religion, until it directly causes great harm to someone.

 

I like your percentage ideas . I think that could be a route to explore . I think his parents should be checked for severe mental illness as well . Something has to be wrong with them.

 

Whatever you say, Leroy........ if you insist on thinking that pneumonia is a great big mystery and while they're still searching for a cure, people will just have to die....... well, knock yourself out.

 

It's been quite clear , probably said 6 times now , that pneumonia is an easy one . I see you don't want to address it so you continue to make straw man arguments and other logic fallacy . Some members have moved on like adults and discussed the scenarios ( stagnant ) , others have just been dishonest and insulting . Ill let you figure out where you fall.

 

I think there's more than enough room to respect religious beliefs while at the same time saying there is a line between religious freedom and plain old negligence.

Here's a question that should settle this whole thing.

Would those who don't support punishing these parents have the same opinion if those parents didn't do this because of religion but just because they felt like it? If religion wasn't a part of the equation, would people still believe these parents had a right to do this?

 

We are discussing a specific case, that no hypothetical has any bearing on...

Why you don't get that is a mystery to me...

 

Well, no (*)(*)(*)(*), Sherlock...... it's called 'brain-washing' into a cult where all independent thinking is not allowed.

 

Holy crap..... I have repeatedly said it was pneumonia, which is curable and you kept harping about 2 doctors not agreeing about treatment....

Oh well....... this isn't worth my time.

 

I agree the parents are in the wrong, completely. But in the end, a situation like this, in a nation of 300 million people, is like .0000001% of the time. Really, people should be allowed to opt out of a doctors advice, but if you do so in an obviously ignorant way that kills your child, you're charged with manslaughter. I just don't want people to argue medicine should be able to circumvent the rights of parents or an individual. That would affect, in a bad way, far more than .0000001%.

 

That's an interesting position you are painting yourself into.

You lefties tell everyone to stay out of your business when you kill fetuses with abortion, but demand someone be jailed because they believe in their religion.

Love the lefty tolerance, just love it.

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As opposed to just outright murdering them from the get go?

Riiiight...got it, no need to explain.

 

Yes , I've moved onto conversation with people who can understand precedent . Who understand shades of gray exist . You and your buddy can do whatever you like .

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Yes , you and your buddy should move on to easier conversations .

 

As opposed to actually discussing the topic at hand?

 

Why dont you and your buddy keep condemning the parents and let the rest of the adults discuss how a case like this impacts the rest of Americans, obviously that discussion is way out of your grasp.....

 

It doesn't really effect most other Americans, because most other Americans are not stupid enough to let their child sit at home & die from an entirely curable illness...

But, feel free to play on your own goalposts...

 

Honestly, you want my opinion?

When it comes to the safety, well-being, and future of the child?

(*)(*)(*)(*) "the rights of the parents". The parents should have the right to raise children how they see fit, so long as it does not demonstrably harm the child. And yes, if it could be demonstrated that, say, raising your child as a Christian had a significant downside independent of what society thinks (i.e. it's not just a societal prejudice at play), then you could not raise your child Christian. If it could be demonstrated that raising your child as tolerant of homosexuals had a significant downside independent of what society thinks, then you could not teach your child that it's okay to be gay. I'm well-aware that this position is both somewhat idealistic (bad science could lead to abuse) and fairly fringe, but honestly, I don't think it's okay to raise your children in a way that will harm them, period. We take kids away from parents who punch or (*)(*)(*)(*) them why? Because it harms the child. Would you assert that being raised in the WBC doesn't also harm a child in a noticeable way?

 

Sounds like you just want to bash religion more than care about this particular situation. 99.9999999999999% of Christians would have taken their child to the doctor to get fixed. The problem here is crazy parents, not the premise to which they latch their craziness to. Should we make the whole world atheist, and when, as sure as you were born, some atheist weirdos kill their kid in some similar fashion, turn the whole world back? And quite honestly, I see many atheists who exude the same level a fanaticism that plaques organized religion.

 

So, according to your 'logic' - the parents who let their 2 children die from curable pneumonia shouldn't be condemned? Because of... why?

And how would a case like this impact the rest of Americans?...... w/the exception of most Americans would be outraged that these parents allowed their 2 sons to die from a very curable illness.........

You're either a religious zealot or you don't have any kids - or if you do have kids, you don't think they're that important.....