Parkland Middle School student hit, killed on Loop 375 after leaving campus during walkout

Again, you don't know that there was inadequate supervision, or that there was sufficient reason to believe that kids would be skipping school to the point that supervision should have been at the perimeter of the school, instead of with the students at the activity. Remember these kids planned to do this, knew enough to go out side doors to avoid detection, and were purposefully trying to not be seen…. while teachers and administrators were supervising the larger groups. You're second guessing them based on what you think they should have done, not on the school and district policy directives. Even prisoners escape from prison sometimes, and it's the guard's job to stop them. It's not the teachers' and administrators' job to plan for jail breaks, and these kids did violate school rules by leaving campus…. purposefully.

Maybe they were negligent, but your argument doesn't prove it. Neither does the public facts.

 

Still at work. I'm working on an answer in defense against one of these fringed flag sovereign citizen whackjobs, so when the BS becomes too much to deal with I pop over here to correct what ignorance I can while I have the time.
I'll be out in a few hours and go through and find the link from the other poster you would've found if you'd read for content.


You actually don't know they went out a side door. They hopped a "wall" on the "side" THATS what the link in the OP says (which is the same one you quoted recently). It does not in fact say "side door".

As to likely to escape: Its 4.20. I will eat my hat if hooky doesn't rise on that day, particularly if its a friday, particularly if you send a whole bunch of the kids outside with little to no supervision.
As to trying not to be seen: If you have someone standing on the corners so they can keep watch on the clear sight lines around the area, you are able to catch ANY person leaving the area who is not actually batman, a ninja, or possessed of some means of invisibility or optical camouflage. This is because as you can see from the street view THERE ARE UNOBSTRUCTED SIGHT LINES ON THE OUTSIDE THAT WOULD LET YOU EASILY SEE A PERSON'S OUTLINE BREAKING UP THE SOLID COLOR OF THE WALL. It would take AT MOST 3 teachers to watch the corners. You could more likely get away with 2 one on the back, and one to one side where they can see across the athletic fields and cover both.
Again: WHAT IS THE GREAT BURDEN in having 2-3 supervising adults on the corners of this riot?

 

No negative point I just never called it Nam just my preference. I never saw the movie Big Lebowski but have seen a lot of cuts from it. Are you a Vet ? Just curious ! I

 

Hey riot? Come on!

 

Thank you! Ok so I do not mean to be clinical here but the fact that those kids willfully broke the rules and skipped out can be used as a defense by the school. Not saying that the one factor absolves them but it is a point in their favor. It will have to be determined if the school should have anticipated that a group would bolt from school and avoid the rally. IMO that is a stretch.

That link also wrecks the BS from some here that claimed the rally was outside school grounds but it was on the football field.
No the does not proove absolutely that the school is free from responsibility but it really makes me sad that some here have made up stuff.

 

Nope never was responsible enough to take the oath when I was young enough and in good enough shape to serve. I've accumulated too many injuries at this point to join up (chronic pancreatitis for one. ). One very large regret in my life.

 

Sounds like you were of age after the draft went defunct so you did not shirk responsibility. So do you agree with some form of universal national service be it military or community? Just curious how people here think about that.

 

I'm of split mind. On the one hand I find compulsory service mostly abhorrent to liberty. On the other hand most people could use a lesson in discipline at around 18 - 21 and military or civil service would accomplish that.
I think I'd settle instead for compulsory militia training at the state level for those that wish to vote (that would require a constitutional amendment, obviously). For an idea of what that would look like you can look at the original militia act.

 

Yes, and what is appropriate supervision?

There were teachers in with the students. The responsible thing for the school in the face of student protests is to contain it to school property and have teachers be in crowd (of course, some of the idiots around here ASSume the teachers outside with the students agreed with the protest). That "protest" was no different than thousands of school assemblies.

No, both are reasonable. We count noses with a fire drill because in a real fire we want to make sure no one is in the building.

Good luck, advocate. You can't make a case for hyper-organization, even to helicopter parents (always hovering).

They're going to have their "protest" whether we like it or not. I submit with teachers in the crowd that it was adequately supervised.

Except it was adequately supervised even if it wasn't a typical school activity.

A lot of supervision is deterrence because there's no way teachers can physically stop students in these situations. A teacher who tried to physically restrain an 11-year-old under those circumstances would be risking their job for putting their hands on the kid.

"Wild scrum?" More of your mischaracterization.

Were you half as smart as you think you are...

A claim that would almost certainly fail.

That's big of you.

There were teachers in the crowd despite no doubt having their motives questioned by self-righteous, teacher-hating types.

Thank god I never needed my teacher salary (I had enough money the salary was irrelevant).

 

I had read it not all that long ago.

 

You just don't like what the protest was about.

 

The district has some protection where injury is a possible outcome of the activity--sports, for example. But that's about it. I gave the example of my duty as a coach to sit down students with injuries regardless of what the parent says.

You leave people with a misunderstanding given the way you frame your point.

I never said I was.

You must be a lawyer or a wannabe lawyer. Hint: you're not smarter than everyone else.

 

Poor manners appear to be your issue.

 

Will you take your own quote for it? They weren't watching the sides, by the highway. See my streetview link earlier for what that looks like.

 

Yes, and I explained why the supervision was adequate.

An assembly doesn't have to be "necessary" and the supervision of the walkout was even admirable under the circumstances.

You, a taxpayer, need to fix public education by first increasing salaries and hiring better teachers, particularly in the inner cities. Then you need to give up thoughts of micromanaging how we go about educating students.

I'll let you in on a secret of how to "TEACH THE LITTLE ****ERS," as you refer to students--pull, don't push. You don't seem to view learning as the best way for individuals to reach realistic goals they set for themselves. You come across as someone who presumes to tell them what to think.

As a teacher, I suspect you'd make education an unpleasant chore.

Good luck, counselor, winning this one. Teachers were circulating amongst the students and the admin was watching the exits to the point the runners had to jump the fence to get away.

You're the guy with the questions.

 

The only side door I can see using Google Street view coming out on the "side" leads to the football field and they would have had to pass the football field on either side to get to the freeway. If they exited on that side they would have had to pass the football field, but there's an underpass on that street. If they went out an emergency exit they would have set off an audible alarm. The buildings with the blue roofs are detached and an auditorium and what appears to be a pool. For a better view collapse the side panel on the left. Who knows maybe a school security officer gave chase and he ran onto the Highway. It will all come out.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/P...7cc0ef8!8m2!3d31.8967832!4d-106.3986923?hl=en

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/P...7cc0ef8!8m2!3d31.8967832!4d-106.3986923?hl=en

The middle school had placed additional supervision at the back and front of the school, but the group of students left the school grounds on the east side, Mr. De La Torres said.

The Google map view is of the east side of the school, in order to get to the highway they would have had to pass right by the supervision at the back (north) side of the school.

 

The same wall that they probably hopped over many many times and same highway that they probably jay walked many many times. Whatever happened to personal responsibility. These were 11 year olds, not 5 years old - old enough to know that they were to stay with the group on the field. The same field that they played on many many times. Do their parents come and collect them at the end of the day or do they cross the same highway to get home or go to the park. You need to live in the real world

 

Parents should have the final say not teachers or students

If the liberal educators released the kid from his classroom the responsibility for his death is theirs

 

You did? How do you figure that?

I didn't say it HAD to be "necessary" I said whether or not it was necessary goes to the reasonableness or lack thereof of the conduct of the school.

Under the circumstances? You mean the circumstances where it was fully supported and planned for by the admin and people are comparing it to something like a pep rally? Those circumstances? What particular circumstances beyond the control of the admin made it particularly difficult? Explain in great detail.

I'm all for that too. My fiance is a teacher. My sister in law is a teacher. These solutions aren't mutually exclusive, nor is the one you suggest on topic. Stay on topic dear, don't deflect.

I presume, and am factually correct, that there is a set curriculum of things you need to know and skills you must have to function in society at a BARE MINIMUM level. I want that taught. If they learn how to think along with the rote knowledge required for them to even be useful flipping burgers, so much the better that's certainly a goal. But it is as you say not something you can force. You CAN force rote learning, and we do, and we HAVE since we STARTED SCHOOLING. Not every child will self motivate and not every self motivated child will do so on any given subject. Take me for instance. You practically had to horsewhip me to do math, it doesn't come naturally to me and therefore I despise it. Not so with writing/reading/history/english, I'd do that on my own you didn't have to ask me.

I'd prefer there were more options and they be allowed to choose technical preparatory training or other career path oriented course work. I'd prefer teachers were paid better and vetted more closely (mostly to weed out the pervs. My school district had numerous problems with that so perhaps I am particularly aware of that problem). I'd prefer there was more security as well. In this thread here we're talking about a negligent supervision case, that tangentially touches on security not coursework, learning, or teacher pay. Stay on topic dear, deflection is the tool of an amateur.

All my teachers, and later my profs, loved me. Except for the math teachers but that was mostly because I didn't pay attention in their class and so didn't participate much. Especially my law professors. Education on that subject is never a chore. I surmise that you're salty because you don't like to be opposed. Methinks tis you who might make education a chore.

 

You need to understand that an 11yr old is not considered an adult or even a particularly reasonable creature.
You need to understand that the educators had a duty, they BREACHED that duty by negligence, and the child was injured because of that negligence. As you say its not unreasonable to expect a child to hop a fence, its quite normal. Not preventing them from doing so because of lackadaisical security is a breach of duty.

 

How do you know the parents didn't approve of this activity? You don't. You just assume they didn't because you don't like the activity.

When this kid left his classroom, that action indicated he was going to participate in the activity, but he had already planned to skip it. He deliberately deceived in doing so. Where is the negligence, when the child deliberately broke the school rules of leaving campus without permission? I wonder how you would feel if you found out the teacher that released this child from class was a conservative Republican. The partisanship of the educators has absolutely nothing to do with this tragedy.

As sad as it is that this child tragically lost his life, he made the choice to sneak out of school, he made the choice to deceive school personnel, he made the choice to go onto a dangerous street.

 

The negligence would be in putting an 11yr old on the honor system because OBVIOUSLY what you're saying is he left class to go to the football fields ostensibly and instead buggered off. He was able to do this because NO ONE WAS ENSURING HE AND THE OTHERS WENT WHERE THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO GO

 

You're right that it will all come out eventually.

When I served on a school board, we dealt with beefing up security. One of the things we did was to have all doors locked from the outside, but they all could be opened from the inside- it's a fire code requirement. However, simply opening a door, even an emergency door, wouldn't set off an alarm. The alarms were activated when the school was locked up for the day, and served as burglar alarms. I'm sure you can imagine how disruptive it would be, and how hilarious kids would find it, if alarms randomly went off all day long, as kids opened those doors, and it would seriously cause problems for teachers knowing when the alarm was a prank and when they should evacuate their classrooms because of fire.

The kids that skipped the activity know the building better than me. They obviously found a way to get out of the building unnoticed, or they would have been stopped. Last I read, they were interviewing the other kids with the one that was killed about the incident. They're kids. They'll talk and the story will come out eventually. It's just a shame one was killed.