People are not racists because they DO racist things...

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Jul 16, 2019.

  1. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    43,408
    Likes Received:
    19,160
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's a fake source. I can say that in my UTEHA Encyclopedia it says that "Race is a made up term". and there is no way you can verify that it{s not so because you have no access to it.

    So it's fake. Webster's online says what I quoted. If you use Websters's as your source, you have to use what is available to both of us. Using an old outdated Encyclopedia is not an intellectually honest way to make an argument. And even worse when you don't disclose the fact that it's old and outdated.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
  2. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,829
    Likes Received:
    18,301
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So phenotypes are arbitrary they don't exist based on genotype and environment?
     
  3. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    43,408
    Likes Received:
    19,160
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Apparently you don't understand what the word "arbitrary" means. Please look it up. It does not mean that the attributes don't exist.
     
  4. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    27,460
    Likes Received:
    11,238
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    All terms are made up.
    It is available to both of us. It just takes a bit more effort to look at it.
    Science can deny race until the cows come home, but the term will continue to be be used.
    I can show you numerous references which show race. For example
    https://www.albany.edu/sph/cphce/mr.../Staff Administered Patient Questionairre.pdf
    Under ethnicity, it shows Mexican, Mexican American.
    Under race it shows Black or African American.

    It also shows definition of race and ethnicity.

    Apparently I am not the only one who still believes race is a valid descriptive term. You may not like it or agree with it, but there it is rearing its ugly head.
     
  5. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,829
    Likes Received:
    18,301
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So why are attributes arbitrary I thought they varied based on environment and genotype.
     
  6. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    43,408
    Likes Received:
    19,160
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I see. You seem to confuse the word "arbitrary" with "random"

    Attributes "are" arbitrary makes no sense in the English language. Read what I said: the selection of attributes is arbitrary. Now. With that out of the way, here is again what I said:

    Any selected combination of factors used to classify people in "races" is arbitrary and not based on genetics.
     
  7. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,829
    Likes Received:
    18,301
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    no.

    Explain why. What is the grammatical error with that sentence?

    that's false the selection of attributes based on environment and genotype.
    that's false. It's based on environment and genotype.
     
  8. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    43,408
    Likes Received:
    19,160
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not grammatical. It's a semantic error. It's like saying "Clouds are evil"

    I assume your native language is not English, right? So let me explain it to you. In that sentence "arbitrary" refers to "selection". Not to "attributes".

    I understand your linguistic confusion because the syntax might vary in other languages. A native English speaker would have picked it up immediately. Especially since I have explained it no less than three times.
     
  9. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,829
    Likes Received:
    18,301
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    than it's not an error, you just disagree and lack the ability to argue.


    I notice you get rather disrespectful when you get owned.

    So ever pathetic attempt at an insult you present is a big flashing neon sign saying you don't have an argument

    The selection is nature, that isn't random it isn't arbitrary. The attributes which organisms have are developed over millennia to better insure the survival of the species it even phenotype.

    See, no argument. When you attack my person it means you have lost.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
    Jestsayin likes this.
  10. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    26,679
    Likes Received:
    6,470
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Throughout his entire Presidency, Trump has wanted it both ways. He thinks he is being clever. He thinks he's bulletproof because he has all the bases covered.

    Actually, he makes himself look foolish and confused. Combined with his penchant for changing his mind in an instant, Trump seems unable to commit to anything. Even if that means attacking his own fans. "I was not happy with it. I disagree with it," Trump said at the White House a day after his Wednesday rally, attacking those who attended the rally.

    In a tweet today, once again he took both sides.

    [​IMG]

    Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump



    As you can see, I did nothing to lead people on, nor was I particularly happy with their chant. Just a very big and patriotic crowd. They love the USA! https://twitter.com/kthopkins/status/1151738558501330945 …

    So, first he says he was not happy with his adoring admirers. Then he says they are patriotic.

    Are these the words of a man of good mental health?
     
  11. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    16,798
    Likes Received:
    17,571
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Watching the media and reading posts on social media, I would suggest questioning the state of President Trump's mental health by a leftie is laughable.
     
  12. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,829
    Likes Received:
    18,301
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    He seems to be immune to " reeeee reeeeee reeeeeeee racist reeeee reeeeee!!!" And that seems to be all anyone can do.
     
  13. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,483
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Semantics. You can call it whatever you like, but it'll still be DNA.
     
  14. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    43,408
    Likes Received:
    19,160
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So "Clouds are not evil" is not a semantic error?

    Can't argue with somebody who decides to hide in their own fantasy world.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
  15. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    40,807
    Likes Received:
    16,249
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Donald Trump has been race baiting from day one.

    And his audience eats it like catnip.

    Of course, most of them try the angry denial, and calling everyone who calls them out, a racist.

    This too, like Trump’s love-it-or-leave-it play, is straight out of the George Wallace playbook.

    I’m sure that it is virtually inevitable that Trump will publicly embrace and endorse racism out in the open.

    He may do it in a tweet, or he may do it in response to a reporter’s question, or in a debate.

    He’s all but there now. And his base is chanting right along with him.
     
  16. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,829
    Likes Received:
    18,301
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't care, it wasn't analogous to my statement.

    clearly.
     
  17. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    57,547
    Likes Received:
    17,097
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Wrong as usual the problem again sir is illegal not immigrant.
     
  18. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2017
    Messages:
    5,151
    Likes Received:
    4,379
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So you are admitting that the Democratic Party has been outright Racist for about 180 years. You are absolutely correct !!!
     
  19. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    43,408
    Likes Received:
    19,160
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't know how long, but of course the Democratic Party had a racist agenda for way over a century. And then they stopped having it. And now it's the Republicans who have it.

    It's nice when we can deal with facts.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
  20. apoptosis

    apoptosis Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2009
    Messages:
    688
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    43
    INNUENDO
    n.
    An indirect or subtle, usually derogatory implication in expression; an insinuation.

    You did not demonstrate any racist act or utterance, just implied that it is common knowledge with the expression, "Trump has displayed his racism many many times".

    If he has done it "many many times" then show me one example. Pick the very best, most racist one you can find and post it for me. No innuendo, no "everybody knows it", but some form of actual evidence. I have been making this challenge online for about 2 years now, and I have yet to see anyone actually do it. Maybe you will be the first.


    Are you sure? Are you sure it is HIS skilled group of public communicators trying to make it seem like he is a racist even though he isn't? You can't think of a more likely suspect? They have accused every republican since Nixon of being a racist....it's on the tip of my tongue.

    Anyway, in what way does he even "appear" racist? Because a bunch of people that would have claimed the same about Marco Rubio or Ted Cruz is saying it? Or is there something substantive you would like to point to finally?


    As for what I "believe" about Trump specifically, I guess I am agnostic. Show me some evidence and I will believe with you, but if all you have is god of the gaps, I will pass.

    As for why he is consistently making inflammatory remarks, that should be obvious. Because so many people will fly off the handle and miss the policy changes he is making. Seriously, look at the next tweet that makes you mad, then go up 1 or 2 and look what he posted. Generally something about the economy or manufacturing, or something that appeals to rust belt voters (you know, the ones that voted for Obama, but then changed to Trump). THAT is his signal to the base...the other stuff is for you. How many federal judges has he appointed? Do you know? How many immigration and asylum law changes has he made? Do you know? I bet you know something mean he said to a special protected class of person though right? You guys keep calling him a clown and an idiot, but he is dunking on everyone constantly. I don't even know who is running for Democrat nominee anymore because he distracted everyone off onto those horrible freshmen congressmen, and even networks that hate him cover him more than the nominees for their own party. Is Bernie still in this thing? I could go look it up, but I hope you see my point.

    .

    Everyone does it to some degree as it is a natural facet of our psychology. It's not necessarily bad to do, you just have to be able to recognize when you are doing it. When you see a rabbit in the clouds, that is not really a rabbit. Your brain is just filling in some information to make it a recognizable item based on its rough appearance. We all recognize that is something people do. It can become pathological though as in with schizo's or through ideology.
    It can also be abused. Read the book Cybernetics, from the 40's I believe, for a look at how simple the human mind really is to control on most levels.
    So if I created a comedy show and consistently implied the republicans were racist, with no evidence just start with the assumption and run with it, my audience would adapt to that. This works best if the punchline of my jokes relies on YOU to insert the IMPLIED racism in to make it funny, i.e. you HAVE to assume the republican is racist for the joke to make sense. After doing this for a bit, you will start repeating the television programming, and you will believe they are your own thoughts. Each time you watch my show and get a little endorphin boost from laughing at the jokes about implied racism, you cement this behavior pattern.

    So honestly, I don't expect most people to recognize they are doing it; the whole point is that you think they are your own thoughts. You just have to be willing to question yourself like you would an opponent. If you don't know anything about this, why do you feel so strongly you are correct? People get mad to the point of name calling when they can't argue the point anymore because they are out of data. Can you actually name 1 substantial piece of evidence that President Trump is a racist?

    I have done that already, but I am going to venture a guess you don't agree. I have asked for proof of your claim, and have not gotten it. You are now claiming that my lack of response to your lack of evidence is a sign of your victory. I am not sure you understand the conversation. What IS the racist comment? You are so sure it is there, but upon repeated request, you have yet to produce 1 single thing. Please help me understand what it is specifically, that you find so racist. A video with a timestamp, or a transcript or something is what you are looking for. You may be tempted to inform me that "everybody knows this already" or something to that effect. Resist this urge. That is not going to help anyone here. I need actual evidence like the kind that might be used by a lawyer or a scientist, not the "evidence" that might be used by a youtube conspiracy guy. Ok? Can you help me out and use real evidence just this one time?

    Sooooo, here you say they only know about the US through Full House reruns and old TV shows, but below you state that Trump is encouraging people to come here with his current (post Full House presumably) policies. How can both of these contradictory statements be true? I am sure they can be, I am just confused as to how. How are they learning of Trump's policies if they are stuck in a time warp and only know about Full House? Could it be that their primitive backwards cultures have figured out radio, or at least the telegraph and they probably can get news? Or do you suppose they are too dumb to know what is going on at all? And Trump is the racist right....?

    No you don't know me at all, or you would know that appeals to sympathy or emotion, or calling me dumb are not going to get you anywhere. No offense, but i don't respect you enough to care what you think about me or my arguments.
    Maybe you are confused what a concentration camp is. "Concentration" is both a verb and an adjective there. The concentration is something that is done to you by an outside power. It is not like a summer camp with pools and bottled water and you go there to get away from your life for a bit and relax. If it were a concentration camp, we would be concentrating the population WITHIN the US, such as the Japanese in WW2. It wasn't something they were excited to get into. It was something they were forced to be in. These camps were originally used in the Boer war to concentrate partisans and guerrilla fighters. Since you can not tell which of the people is a rebel and which is a civilian, you intern them all to prevent skirmish attacks or undermining of your war effort. If we were rounding up all the Hispanics in the US and putting them in camps, you could make a case for concentration camps. The fact that you think people would willingly take their children into a concentration camp because they are GOOD parents is hilarious. Please don't have children.
    What we have at the border are detainment camps for people trying to illegally enter the US. There is an easy way to stay out of them, do not try to illegally immigrate to the US or abuse the asylum system to shop around for the best future location for your family. You are supposed to seek asylum in the FIRST country you reach where you are no longer in immediate danger from the threat you are fleeing. That country is not the US for South and Central America. Which means these people are attempting to abuse the asylum system and deserve no sympathy.


    You are not really great at explaining things. I don't know what exactly you think is stupid, as you have provided no rationale. So I am not sure what sort of rebuttal you were hoping for with a response of this caliber. Also, I don't know what a wingnut media is. I read AP and Reuters. Are those wingnuts?


    No, I have it on good authority, by a VERY knowledgeable person, that they only have Full House reruns down there in the phantom zone where time stands still.

    Also, those are all examples of Trump telling illegal immigrants NOT to come. Closing the border, means you can't come here. In what twisted perception of reality is this Trump begging people to illegally immigrate here?


    You would know what this has to do with the discussion if you read my comments how they were written and then looked at what I was responding to. YOU SAID: "...the only one who has done anything to encourage them to keep coming is Trump" So lets think for a minute. How could my comment about them being encouraged to come here by advertisements paid for by NGOs, have ANYTHING to do with a discussion about who is encouraging them to come here.... This is a tough one. Really gets the old noggin joggin. Hopefully someone smart will come along and explain this to both of us, because I just can not wrap my mind around the complexities here.
     
  21. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    43,408
    Likes Received:
    19,160
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Of course I did! Did you read the OP? It is also common knowledge. But I most definitely gave a clear example on the OP. Taking a post out of context is not an argument. It's either intellectual dishonesty or intellectual laziness. Your choice.

    To me, his Obama birtherism is the most racist one. The one on the OP is pretty clear, but it's simply an extension of that one. But if you want something that you would consider "clear"... let's see.. there are many. Even court cases where adjudication basically says that he's a racist . I don't know how in the world you could deny, for example, that his pretense that Judge Curiel should recuse himself from the Trump University lawsuit because he was a "Mexican". But I guess "denying reality" is in the DNA of the Trump cult, so I wouldn't put bets on it.

    Oh God! :rolleyes:

    Uhmm... yeah... .sure.... I'll have to leave it at that so as not to get in trouble with the mods if I told you what I really think of that statement.

    You did not respond the question. And that settles that.

    Well that's a dumb way of drawing attention away from his idiotic policy changes.... Maybe he should try a different approach like... I dunno... not doing stupid things!

    Uhmm... I don't...

    Look... Trump is a racist. He makes racist remarks because he's a racist. There is no "underlying" or "hidden" motive. He doesn't have the brains for anything other than... being a racist. There is no "strategy" ... When he makes racist remarks, Trump is just... being Trump.
    .
    They're not! Their neighborhood Coyote pointed to the story on the local paper that tells them how Trump is going to close the Mexican border. So they better hurry before he does that if they want to save their family from gangs and drug cartels. And the Coyote is just the guy who can arrange it all for a special discount rate.

    It only has to do with nutty alt-right conspiracy theories. Unless you can show one of those advertisements.

    And you won't. Because you can't...

    Anyway. Yes! Trump is the one who is responsible for encouraging to come here. CAM was one program he eliminated and was helping ease the backlog. Not making "waves" about "shutting down the border" would have been a good idea if he didn't want to give Coyotes the weapons to advertise their services. He has simply been... incompetent in handling this whole thing. As in everything else.
     
  22. apoptosis

    apoptosis Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2009
    Messages:
    688
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    43
    "Intellectual laziness" would be calling someone a racist, and then providing no evidence. In fact, trying to label someone as ANYTHING so that you don't have to address their points seems lazy to me.
    Your OP does not contain anything more than innuendo. Tell me, which race is questioning someone's country of origin, for or against? So Trump questions someone's country of origin, is that saying something good about the race of "non immigrants"? Is it saying something bad about the race of "immigrant"? Spell it out for me. Should I post the definition of racism again? Would that help?


    Adjudication in court doesn't "basically say" anything. That is an interpretation you have chosen.
    As for intellectual dishonesty which you mentioned earlier, your remark about the Mexican judge isn't really true is it? First, Mexican is not a race. Second, he wanted that particular judge to recuse himself because the judge was a member of La Raza (the race), a hispanic supremacist group whose slogan is "Por La Razatodo, Fuera de La Raza nada" which translates roughly to "for THE RACE everything, for those outside of THE RACE nothing". This is while Trump was telling THE RACE they needed to stay in their own country or immigrate legally, so he likely would not get a fair trail.
    Would you say a trial in which a black man is being tried by a KKK member is going to be a fair trial?
    So these are not examples of racism. They are examples of you assuming things based on too little information.


    Please feel free to say whatever you like to me, I don't get insulted on the internet. I have never complained to a mod once in my life, and I don't plan on starting now.

    I did answer your question, at least I thought I did, it's just that the question wasn't very good. You assume he is trying to appear racist, and I don't see how he even "appears" racist. That could be because I know what the definition of racism is, or it could be because I actually bother to look at the details around these sorts of claims. I don't know. But what I do know, is that you have not demonstrated any racism.

    It appears to me at least, that you are assuming the worst motives in anyone that doesn't agree with you. Like, Obama was just as evasive with his birth certificate as Trump is with his tax returns. People asked forever and nothing was produced for a long time. In the case of Obama we are supposed to trust the president and the system or you are a racist, but in the case of Trump, it must be villainy or you are a blind idiot. You are assuming things.

    With me, I disagree with flimsy claims of racism and you accuse me of being willingly blind and repeating right wing media. Do you see how all of your arguments rely on YOU to be the judge of what is in everyone's mind? That doesn't strike you as even a little odd?



    If it's not broke, don't fix it. I bet you really didn't know how many federal judges or policy changes, right?


    This reminds me of footage of racist white people in the 50's talking about black people. They couldn't put their finger on anything specific, they just knew they didn't like them.
    "He's just...Trump...that's how you know he's racist, because Trump is racist, and he is Trump".
    Still not making a very strong case.

    So, Trump doesn't want you to go there, so you better hurry up and go there? Seems like they were told they are not welcome at the very least.


    Excuse me, but your entire premise is based on a conspiracy theory that Trump is secretly racist if you "interpret the data".

    Also for the ads, this is what the immigrants themselves are saying:
    http://www.theamericanmirror.com/il...cause-of-tv-newspaper-ads-touting-free-stuff/

    And there was this gem from years ago:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/06/...l-for-illegal-migrants-upsets-some-in-us.html

    Everyone sees us as chumps that they can get stuff from.

    I like how you start with the assumption that those people MUST come here. It is Trumps fault, because those people MUST come here and he is closing the boarder. Ergo, he is causing them to come right now. Do you see how this is something a crazy person would say? They don't HAVE to come here. I would think closing the border would make that obvious. There are 190+ countries on the earth, go to one of the others if you don't like your life at home and can't be bothered to follow our laws or the international asylum laws that state they should have stopped in Mexico, not the US.
     
  23. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    43,408
    Likes Received:
    19,160
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It would be. Except I did provide evidence. And you ignored it.

    And this is the main thing in this discussion. It would have been intellectually honest to disagree with me. To somehow explain why that was not "racist". Or to argue that there is an alternative explanation.

    But you decided to do none of the above. You just... ignored it. And accused me of not posting it. So where "Intellectual laziness" (since that's your choice) lies has been established

    There is no such thing as "race".. There is only racism. .

    Questions? Are you reading? Did you read the OP? He didn't "question" anything. He just assumed they were from another country.

    Focus! Focusing does require intellectual work

    Oh.. I see. You need somebody else to do the work. Well... I already did. He assumes people are from another country because they are not like him... white! He has never assumed such a thing of Hillary, or Biden, or .... any of his white opponents. Why do you think he has a problem assuming the wrong "country of origin" only of people who are not of the ethnic group as he perceives himself to be?

    Oh. Is that what you needed? A definition? Definitions are not always complete. But I'll give you one based on the usual concept used in Anthropology, as it relates to this discussion: "Racism" is the institutionalized oppression by the dominant ethnic group in a given society of all other ethnic groups.


    You deny it?

    Wow!

    Wrong!!! "La Raza" does not mean "the race". It means "The Culture". I am fluent in Spanish, so don't bother. You are repeating wingnut media propaganda. Anyway... if you wanted to prove more "intellectual laziness", you did it. But it's irrelevant to this discussion. You are just defending another racist comment by your idol.

    I do not assume that. To me it's clear that he is a racist. The alternative to him being a racist is that, for some strange reason, he just wanted to give that appearance. That is, of course, an absurd assumption that could only be made by somebody who wants to hide his racism at all costs.

    Now... it's one or the other. It is not possible that a somebody who is not a racist (or is not trying to look like a racist, if we were to make that absurd assumption) would confuse the country of origin only of people who don't "look" like him. Who would stand there while his followers scream to remove them from this country. Who would say that the reason why a judge adjudicated against him was that he is "Mexican". ... I could go on and on... but, in short, somebody who is constantly saying offensive racist things. And, BTW, who is recognized as a racist by his fellow racists. And who has never actually seriously disavowed their support and praises. But actually follows them in social media and often even re-tweets them.

    So the question is: is he a racist... or is he trying really really really hard to appear as if he were a racist?

    Which one is it?

    This thread was based on one specific. But you ignored it and wanted more. Well... there are plenty of specifics in this post. I hope you don't ignore them like you did before.

    "Not welcome"? Do you even have the slightest idea of why these people come here? Obviously not! Too much "intellectual work" to find out, right?

    Don't be ridiculous. He's not "secretly" a racist. He spews racism every day in public. Since he came down those escalators his campaign has been based on racism. But he has been a public racist since waaay before that.

    "Secret"? My God! And do you know what the word "conspiracy" means? Obviously not!

    My God! You point me to a White Supremacist website to prove that Trump is not a racist?

    "Have you no decency, sir?" If you want to claim there is an "ad"... post the ad!!! You fall too easily for propaganda.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
  24. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    26,679
    Likes Received:
    6,470
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Trump is a pathological liar. He has gotten so bad many think he can no longer differentiate reality from his fantasies. He showed that again today.

    Trump claimed Tuesday that African Americans are so delighted with his attacks on the city of Baltimore and US congressman Elijah Cummings, an African American, that they are calling him at the White House in large numbers to thank him. :roflol::rolleyes: That's surreal.

    "What I've done for African Americans, no president, I would say, has done. Now, I'll say this: they are so happy, because I get the calls. They are so happy at what I've been able to do in Baltimore and other Democratic-run, corrupt cities," Trump said. :roll:

    "The African American people have been calling the White House. They have never been so happy as what a president has done. Not only the lowest unemployment in history for African Americans, not only opportunity zones for, really, the biggest beneficiary the inner city, and not only criminal justice reform. But they're so happy that I pointed out the corrupt politics of Baltimore. It's filthy dirty. It's so horrible. And they are happy as hell," Trump added.:icon_jawdrop: He didn't say what they are happy about.

    Trump began talking negatively about Cummings and Baltimore in a series of tweets on July 27. In a Quinnipiac University poll conducted from July 25 to July 28 -- two days before the tweets, the day of the tweets, and one day after the tweets -- Trump had a 6% approval rating and 84% disapproval rating with black voters. Eighty percent of black voters said Trump is racist, while just 11% said he is not.

    https://poll.qu.edu/images/polling/us/us07292019_uymr53.pdf/

    BTW, in case anyone is wondering, other polls are quite similar.

    Of course, Trump talks only to his base. They are the only ones gullible enough to believe him, but are they really that gullible and uninformed?
     
  25. apoptosis

    apoptosis Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2009
    Messages:
    688
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    43
    OK I get it, relax. I did not ignore your OP, I asked you to explain specifically what was racist and you never did. The racism that you see, is not apparent to someone who is not looking for racism everywhere.
    You explain below what you mean, so I will address that there.


    That's not really true. We do meet the genetic criteria to be considered several races. Social sciences down play the race issue, but hard sciences still do use it. The only real fuzzy area in the discussion are the exact demarcation lines.
    People also say there are no differences between men and women, but there are numerous differences outside of genital configuration. It is considered poor form to publish anything that could be construed as men are better than women or white is better than black etc. Look what happened to Charles Murray. There is nothing racist in the Bell Curve and all work is cited. People didn't like what his conclusions might mean, so he was labeled a racist.


    First, you explaining the hyperbole you type is not "somebody else doing the work". You defend and explain your positions and claims, and I do the same for mine. You don't get to make a vague claim and expect everyone else to go make your argument for you. It doesn't seem like you have thought any of this out very well, so you have only vague comments. If asked to explain how a comment about national origin relates to race, that is because you didn't actually finish making your case.

    How do you know his assumption was based on "white"? What did he say or do that indicates this is about race? Or are you just inserting that part for us?
    What about the other nonwhite people he DID NOT say anything to? Did he forget about them? Does he assume all non white people are from out of the country, or just the ones whose parents were foreign nationals?


    The definition of racism is:
    n.
    The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

    There is no mention of institutional anything; what you are defining is something known as institutional racism.
    I have noticed the effort to conflate these 2 definitions over the past few years. People want that word "institutional" to be in there so that only white people will be considered racist. I'm serious, look for this trick. A black person says something racist, gets called on it, and then responds with "I can't be racist because I don't have institutional power", then continues to be racist free of consequence.

    So what has Donald Trump said that reflects his "belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others"??




    I hate to break it to you, but you are not as fluent in Spanish as you think you are.

    raza



    FEMININE NOUN
    1. (ethnic group)
    a. race
    Todos somos iguales ante la ley, sin importar credo ni raza.We are all equal before the law, regardless of religious belief or race.

    It is actually YOU who are repeating a media talking point about changing La Raza's public relations by claiming they are not THE RACE, but something more culturally sensitive.


    You could have looked it up, or at least not played at being the expert. Instead you chose to rely on your "fluency" in Spanish which could be easily debunked with a 2 second search. What am I to make of that? Should I assume your constant accusations of intellectual laziness are well founded claims by a reasonable person, or should I assume that like most progressives I meet, you are projecting your own shortcomings on to me?
    I lived in LA for 13 years. I did not meet 1 person in La Raza that thinks it meant "the culture". They used to very proudly say it was THE RACE, but that doesn't look so good in the media now.
    So that judge belonged to a racial supremacist group...I thought you were against those.

    I think you are seeing what you want to see. Robert Byrd was a grand cyclops for the KKK, but he was also a democrat, so it was the nice KKK that did not count against him. Read his bio, the KKK stuff is generally buried deep in the piece. He was a known and open racist, that was not attacked by democrats for racism and the media gave him a pass. They even gave Hilary Clinton a pass for calling this man her mentor. still no racism.
    Donald Trump says the US should enforce the border with Mexico....racist!
    DT got into an argument with a black person....racist.
    DT talked to a racist once in 1986....racist.

    HOW do you know see the obvious bullshit here? You are being played sir.

    Saying offensive things, is not the same thing as being a racist. Refusing to see someone's faults BECAUSE of their race, IS a form of racism though. These women are obnoxious and say negative things about the country fairly constantly. Some of them have also called for other people to be deported.
    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/07/23/ilhan-omar-also-called-for-opponent-to-be-deported/
    You ONLY want to look at their race, like that is a shield against all criticism.
    I covered the Mexican judge thing already. He is a racial supremacist that belongs to a group that claims half of the US rightfully belongs to Mexico.
    As for the disavowal nonsense, you are not responsible for people that support you. I wouldn't jump through the hoop for reporters either, no matter who they named. Not my responsibility. However, responding to their demands for disavowal like a trained seal doing tricks on command, makes you look like a chump.


    This is a false dichotomy. What if you have apophenia? What if the media just tries to leverage any situation so they can to feed a narrative? What if we made people use the definition of racism, when they make claims of racism? There are more than 2 options see.


    He ASSUMED that people were from somewhere else, because they are not white like him. That is the gist of your claim. You are ASSUMING this is because of white/non-white though. What specifically led you to this conclusion. SPECIFICALLY.


    I would watch that "too much intellectual work" bit; glass houses my friend.
    As for why people come, it is to enrich themselves in someway, but ultimately not my problem. When you start down this road of it being ok to break the law if you "just wanted a better life", then any criminal alive could use this defense. I robbed that bank because I just wanted a better life for me and my sad children. Everyone has a sob story, I listen to them all day long. What most people won't tell you is that they are responsible for their own problems most of the time.

    So your home country of Guatemala is terrible. What is your solution? To break the laws of another country and feed off of the population there, to get stuff you want. THAT is why your country sucks. Please don't bring that here. Mexico should have had a revolution 30 years ago. They don't because they send the poor military age men here to work. So nothing gets fixed in Mexico, and the wages for low skill labor are driven down here. Everyone loses. Those countries suck, in part, because the general character of the people sucks. Mexico specifically could be a 1st world nation on par with any European nation due to their natural resources and climate etc. Why don't they have their own American style revolution and throw off the old corrupt government and the cartels they work for? Nah, better just to send the poor here to work for $6 an hour so I don't have to mow my own yard or raise my own children. That's what's best for everyone.

    If you actually cared about these people at all, you wouldn't be supporting illegal immigration. Illegal immigration is how they get locked into being an underclass that is used to harm the poor. They actually stand in opposition to the American poor. No matter how poor an American citizen, if you hire them you have to pay a minimum wage, provide overtime, workplace safety measures, insurance, healthcare, 401K, payroll taxes, etc etc. If you hire an illegal you pay them whatever you can get away with and none of those other things. Who would you hire? An entitled American poor person, or the guy I can threaten back to work for $5 an hour by saying I will call ICE?

    Yet every example you given is just a situation involving someone of another race, not any actual racism. Why is that? And before you MY GOD! yourself into a panic, I am not ignoring what you have posted, I am just telling you that nothing you have posted actually constitutes racism if we use the definition of racism. If you would like to use some other definition, but just say racism, then sure. I guess by that metric anything could be racist.


    I am not familiar with the site, but it appears to be another news aggregation site. I saw the video of individuals going to the facility because the media did not cover it at first. On the video they state that there were advertisements prompting people to come for free stuff in the US. I would love to find that video for you, but sadly Google and YouTube have screwed with the search algorithm so much, that when you look for anything specific about the detention centers, you get the same few media sources saying orange man bad, and not the thing you actually searched. I will see if I can find it somewhere else.
     

Share This Page