Police Arrest Alabama Pastor for ( No Joke) Watering Flowers

There's only one way to identify yourself and that's by producing your identification.

 

In the video the first thing the Pastor does is tell them he is Pastor Jennings and he is at his friends house to water the flowers. He also tell them he lives across the street and gesters at his home with the hose in his hand. At that point the officers have been told his last name, where he lives and what he is doing there. At that time no officer asked for his first name or exact address. He was stopped and complied with the police by giving his name, address and explanation for why he was there. He gave them additional information about the vehicle belonging to the neighbor. Did he not provide all of the necessary information in your opinion. The police may have wanted additional details but is he required to provide it?

I am no expert but when I googled 10-15 it means "prisoner in custody". You say he was arrested because he refused to identify himself but he gave his last name, where he lived and explanation for why he was there. So is this entire arrest because he did not give his first name until he was in handcuffs?

If you watch the video at the 10:25 mark, one police officers asks the other officer "what are were going to do with him?". At that time they were discussing what to charge him with. The other officer suggests disorderly conduct and failing to obey a police officer and refusing to give any information. At that time the original officer says he won't give his social but gave his first, last name and DOB. Then the other officer says SHE, (I assume the female neighbor), says the same thing "she won't give her name". The police did not even determine the obstruction charge until after discussion at the 15:15 mark of the video. At that point they knew his full name, address and ran his info. They did the same thing with the woman but still did not know her last name at that time. So basically they charged him with obstruction but not her even though they had more of his information than hers. If this is all about obstruction only why not arrest her too? Wasn't she obstructing?

Also if you watch the conversation from the original officer, all he said the suspect was saying was "racial profiling" and "I am going to sue". He never once mentioned that he told him his occupation, last name and where he lived and why he was there. He was totally focusing on the racial profiling rant and the suing part.

2006 Alabama Code - Section 15-5-30 — Authority of peace officer to stop and question.
A sheriff or other officer acting as sheriff, his deputy or any constable, acting within their respective counties, any marshal, deputy marshal or policeman of any incorporated city or town within the limits of the county or any highway patrolman or state trooper may stop any person abroad in a public place whom he reasonably suspects is committing, has committed or is about to commit a felony or other public offense and may demand of him his name, address and an explanation of his actions.

 

So you're required to provide that info when you are being detained?

Can you be detained for not providing it before you are detained? Do they need some other reason to detain you first?

 

I've already answered these questions. Saying "I live over there." is not giving your address. His full name is not "Pastor Jennings." So no, he did not provide the information required. The police could not verify any of what he said without the actual information.

Yes. He did not give his full name until he was in custody. You don't get to disobey the law for a while then when you finally get arrested for disobeying the law get unarrested.

What's your point about the woman? There was no reasonable suspicion that she committed a crime, so she was not required by law to provide the information. She did not obstruct the investigation.

So? The pastor made a false allegation.

Yes. And the pastor failed to provide his name and address. He violated
[quote = "https://www.lawserver.com/law/state/alabama/al-code/alabama_code_13a-10-2]
Alabama Code 13A-10-2. Obstructing governmental operations
(a) A person commits the crime of obstructing governmental operations if, by means of intimidation, physical force or interference or by any other independently unlawful act, he:
(2) Intentionally prevents a public servant from performing a governmental function.
[/quote]

Just because one officer asked the sergeant what they were charging him with doesn't mean the arrest was invalid. He was breaking the law until he wasn't. That literally no different than slowing down when you see an officer on the side of a highway. If you were speeding until you got caught, that doesn't change the fact that you were speeding. The officer would be well within his authority to ticket you, even though you slowed down, after you got caught.

 

Yes. That is the limited information that you are required to provided.

They have to have reasonable suspicion of a crime, in this case trespass 3rd, before you are allowed to be detained. You cannot be detained before you are detained.

 

No where on the video did the original police officer ask for clarification of his name or address. I have seen many police officers identify themselves as Sergeant <last-name>. I have also met many people introduce themselves with the title and last-name such as doctor, honor or professor. If the first name was important why did the police officer not ask after he said he was Pastor Jennings. He pointed to his house. At that point the police officer did not ask for additional address information. Is the real problem that we do not know his address or they did not like the way he conveyed it. If I was outside and an officer asked me where I lived, why is pointing at my home not enough? They know the street and can see my house number. If that is not good enough the next question should be what is your street number and street name not lets have a conversation and talk about things.

The second police officer got his full name and DOB and was able to run his identify and get his info. The only thing he refused to give was his social.

IMO the bottom line is he told the original officer his name and residence and gave an explanation of why he was there. If the officer wanted clarification on any of those points he could have asked which he never did. In the video he did not say what is your first name or what is your street number? What he says is I just want to talk with you to figure things out. Do you think he was going to ask about a first name or was he conducting his investigation? Do you think Jennings is required to give him any additional information and to just talk and have a conversation with them?

Noticed the body cam video of the second officer as he walked around the home. Looked at the points of entry, turned off the hose and even released the pressure in the hose. He ran the plates and determined the owner of the vehicle belonged to the home owner. He ran Jennings name and got his address and info. He investigated the call without having to talk to or have a "conversation" with Michael Jennings. Michael Jennings did not obstruct the investigation. He just did not cooperate beyond a threshold he thought was necessary.

 

You must not have been watching the same video that you posted. He patently refused to identify himself.

It's clear that you're incapable of looking at the situation objectively. You've decided, regardless of the facts, that what the pastor said was enough, regardless of the fact that it clearly wasn't. A title and a last band is clearly not enough to identify a person. Just like a rank and a lady name isn't enough to identify an officer. That's why they have badge numbers.

You're either being deliberately obtuse or youre incapable of understanding how any of this works.

The second officer only got the rest of the infornation after he was arrested for failing to provide said information.

 

Which video are you watching? Within the first minute he has told the police officer he is there to water the flowers, the SUV belongs to the neighbor and not him, he is pastor Jennings and he lives across the street, (he points to his house at 1:26). Pretty much everything you asked for except a first name and house number.

The next question the police officer asked was to see ID. It was not what is your first name or what is your street number. At the 2 minute mark the police just kept on reiterating they want to talk to him. What do you suppose they were going to talk about? His first name and street number or something else? Do you believe he needs to discuss the investigation beyond his name, where he lives and what he was doing there?

 

That's what I'm talking about. The Pastor knew why they were there and he goaded them, and they fell into it. That's bad judgment on the part of the cops. Once they knew there were no signs of B&E they had no reason to push it. They could have waited him out.

 

I think there were opportunities for both sides to de-escalate the situation:

 

What kind of “pastor” behaves that way?

 

When you have the Democrats’ blessing, anything goes. Anyway, the pastor tossed the bait, police took it. Critical thinking used to be a required skill if you want to join law enforcement.

 

Well played pastor. These hill Billy's don't have a brain cell between them.

 

yes, it was a requirement when I did it. They’ve dumbed down the requirements for the job, and support them even less. And people wonder why no one wants that job any more.

 

Does the AP really need a 'Race and Ethnicity' team:

 

The pastor himself speaks:

 

Is that goofus idiot actually trying to compare himself to Emmitt Till?

Did Emmitt have 3 polite police officers ask him politely to explain why he was on that property? Did Emmitt give endless backtalk until he was arrested on video and in broad daylight? I don't recall any of that from the Emmitt Till story...

One embarrassing human being... I so wish he had been arrested for cause....

What made him a suspect??? A premature mistaken phone call to the police....

 

He wasn't arrested for watering the flowers, he was arrested for trespassing.

At least that's the argument from the left in another thread.

 

Jennings didn't have his ID on him , at the end of the video you see his wife approaching and handing his ID to the officer.

BTW:

Charges dropped against Childersburg pastor who ... - CBS 42
https://www.cbs42.com › news › local › charges-dropp...

Jun 2, 2022 — Jennings said he was happy that the charges against him had been dropped. “The thing is the thing it put me through was totally unnecessary and ...

 

And they immediately believed her when she confirmed Jenning's identity.
IIRC: from the video one of the cops said that she wouldn't show them her ID and the cop that was speaking with her knew her?
They did drop the charges which doesn't look good for them when a lawsuit if filed.


Snip: ID


"An area of the law that is pretty clear’

"Alabama law allows police to ask for the name of someone in a public place when there's reasonable suspicion the person has committed or is about to commit a crime. But that doesn't mean a man innocently watering flowers at a neighbor's home must provide identification when asked by an officer, according to Hank Sherrod, a civil rights lawyer who reviewed the full police video at the request of the AP.

“This is an area of the law that is pretty clear,” said Sherrod, who has handled similar cases in north Alabama, where he practices.

Giving police the same name he routinely uses as the minister of a Black church, where ecclesiastical titles are important, Jennings identified himself, without any prompting, as “Pastor Jennings" within seconds of Smith's approach. That might have been adequate for someone steeped in the culture of Black Christianity, but it wasn't for white police officers."


https://www.opb.org/article/2022/09/01/watering-while-black-anatomy-of-a-pastor-s-alabama-arrest/

 

He could have just said that vice obstructing justice. Instead, he wudden gonna take no **** off no white cop.

 

He did tell the cop to go ask his wife and had pointed to where he lived.
Guess when all was said and done he didn't "obstruct justice" due to how the cops handled the situation leading to the charges against him being dropped.

 

No, at first he had a, "go get ****ed" attitude and said he wasn't showing them a damn thing. That's when he broke the law.

 

Under Alabama law he wasn't under any legal requirement to do so.
I posted the link to that.

 

They were conducting an investigation. There's no law that gives someone the right to obstruct a police investigation.