Post your tough questions for an Atheist/Agnostic.

No Atheist would at that or think it. Perhaps you are thinking of a Christian making up things to say about an Atheist to feel better.

Most Atheist would say....Awesome.

 

The way science functions is to create hypothesis and research data and observation until theory can be developed, which is then furthered by scientists. Should data come about for a God it will follow this path. Science does not claim a thing as accurate just because they like it. Science will NEVER know everything......it would no longer be needed.

 

I am trying to understand, but it is difficult. Not because I think an atheist should feel the necessity to go to church or subscribe to any particular religion, but because an atheist can say with a straight face that NO one and NOTHING created anything, or caused it to be created. So much evidence, but so little in a sensible, credible refutation of the whole concept....

Consider:

We don't know how big the universe is. We don't know all of what it contains. We don't know when it began. We don't know what sustains its existence or how it "works". We don't know when it will end (or IF it will end). And, we don't know what it's even here for. But, in spite of all that we do not know, the atheist will tell you with complete confidence that NO one and NOTHING created any of it or caused it to be created. Really, I find that to be baffling....

 

We will never know
Suffice it to say that we are not losing any sleep

 

If....
it is true that our beliefs..... our faith.....
in a certain type of utopian future.... could assist to
make that obviously positive future a reality......
then.....
why not promote the idea..... even if you are only five percent
convinced that it is really possible?


http://www.near-death.com/experiences/notable/howard-storm.html#a04

For the record Howard Storm Ph. D. postulated that perhaps what he perceived as
a near told lack of technology might actually be that technology became so small and
fitted into the environment so well... that he just could not notice it?!

That vision was for the year 2185.

 

The same reason you might not want to promote people to step on a bridge that you are only 5% convinced exists.



​

 

I generally do not count on "IFS" as the outcome is undefined. Truths in reality have always served me well and I am able to justify my choices abd actions.

 

Full credit to Dawkins, even he admits he's not sure..

 

But miracles claimed by religion are studied by science. As a Catholic, I am still enthralled by the following miracles which have not yet been debunked: 1)The 69 Miracle cures at Lourdes, 2) The Miracle of the Shroud of Turin 3) The Miracle of the Sun at Fatima

While the Church does not say one has to believe in them as a matter of Faith, one's Faith is invigorated by them.

 

The same kind of mind that can look at our tiny window on the vastness of the Universe and unconditionally declare that they fully know and understand the infinite creator, exactly how they created the universe and their specific purpose for it and us as individuals.

Human beings are often irrational little animals.

 

Most miracles claimed in the Bible(s) are second hand stories repeated by the third and fourth hand and edited by the fifth, they cannot be in any way confirmed by science. The shroud has neither been confirmed nor debunked but I find it extremely unlikely Jesus was a caucasian male as depicted in western cultures. Had the Sun at Fatima incident actually occurred we would all be dead from gravitational disturbance created by Earth no longer rotating or the sun changing its position. The miracle would have been our planet still existing.

 

Excuse me but the miracles I talked about are not Biblical. Science has not yet provided an explanation for them. As for Fatima, all you are saying is it couldn't have happened according to your beliefs, yet tens of thousands of people observed it. I would call that a miracle.

 

Okay...then according to YOUR BELIEFS the laws of physics and planetary motion/Gravity are artificial manmade quantities designed to debunk miracles?

 

Even Christian ethics is not entirely dependent on the Bible. Spinoza for instance argued with logic, not simply quoting the Bible. You have your own philosophical justifications for what's in the Bible. If the Bible said that killing children was okay, you wouldn't blindly go along with it.

Atheists go through the same process of criticism, just without an end in mind.

Then again, certainly many Atheists don't especially think about ethics.

[hr][/hr]

Good work on your support for Brexit btw, you've got an ally here.

 

I can't disagree with you that humans are often irrational, and that they place unswerving faith in some of the most bizarre concepts and ideas. One man's religion is another man's laughable fantasy....

But I'm not talking about a situation where a person confronts The Universe and concocts some bizarre, irrational religion to explain it. No. I'm talking about something even more difficult to understand than that. The truly puzzling enigma lies in trying to understand how anyone could confront said Universe and conclude that no one and nothing created any of it. The empirical evidence posed by the very presence of The Universe itself would seem to argue otherwise... completely.

 

.....WHY?.....

Please explain this.

 

I disagree that there is any empirical evidence specifically supporting any kind of sentient creator of the universe. It perfectly possible for the universe to have come to be without the intervention of a sentient creator. It’s also perfectly possible for a creator to have made the universe but completely hidden their actions from our view. Nothing we can observe makes either of those possibilities significantly less likely than any other.

The details don’t really matter though. Someone who claims a specific creator is by definition dismissing out of hand any other possible creator. On a pure rationality basis, that’s not significantly different to someone dismissing out of hand all the other possible creators plus one. It isn’t the particular answer any of these hypothetical people give that’s wrong, it’s their unquestioning certainty.

 

Indeed, the possible scenarios are almost endless, and we'll never solve anything here. A creator that exhibits such peculiarly anthropomorphic behavior as to have "completely hidden their actions from our view" is one possibility, but such a hypothesis is perhaps more palpable to the agnostic than the pure atheist.

And, I suppose it is also possible for the entire universe to have just spontaneously 'popped' into being without the "intervention of a sentient creator". But I just don't see how, Joe. It's all so well-ordered that this seems highly unlikely.

 

Well said....
the Jewish Bible states something to the effect of:
"thou shalt not suffer (allow) a witch to live" but
personally...... here in 2017.... I find that my online friends who
would tend to term themselves pagan or even witches.... .are
some of the nicest.... most friendly... .least critical..... least fearful and angry
people that I have ever met through the internet.

I am now at the place where I can only understand that Mosaic commandment in
a way that is metaphorical........
I suppose I could try my best to encourage a witch or pagan to become more well informed
about Messiah Yeshua - Jesus but.......

I would be more likely to encourage them to begin with a near death experience account... than
with the Jewish or Christian Bible that can be so confusing........

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/notable/christian-andreason.html#a04h

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/notable/christian-andreason.html#a08a

It took me about five years to begin to get that two by four out of my .......
and I am sure I still have some splinters.........
http://www.politicalforum.com/gay-l...rs-understand-nde-comments-gay-community.html

 

Sounds like a scientific theory along the lines of the primordial soup. Science is a religion requiring faith to accept. Of all the fields of study, none have been more wrong more often than science. They thought they had the human anatomy figured out but just recently discovered a new human organ. Newton's laws of gravity are being questioned. Today's science facts are tomorrow's science myths.

 

Jesus said he was an alien and had awesome powers to prove it, and that he'd tell us long-hidden secrets. So isn't it illogical for anybody to dismiss an alien visitor out of hand?

 

Because, tecoyah, IT'S THERE!

If the Universe wasn't 'here/there/everywhere', then one could say, "What the hell is he talking about...?" But, well... uh, like, you know... it's THERE....

 

Obviously....my question for you was WHY does it indicate your God made it, or any other one?

Simply observing a thing exists is not an indication of its creation.



When I say the Universe we see is actually the thirteenth version and this one was actually made on a dare by energy that has no time and is thus immortally eternal does that make it an accurate assertion?

 

Wait a minute! I didn't say one word about "God". I said that the Universe ITSELF is evidence of something being here/there/everywhere. The question I pose is -- how did "it" get here/there/everywhere? The only way to deny that there is something here/there/everywhere is to deny the existence of the Universe itself! Surely you aren't doing that...?! And, if you don't deny the existence of the Universe, then how do you propose that "it" got here/there/everywhere?! Did "God" create it? Did it just *pop* out of thin air? If so, where did the 'air' come from...? It's a total enigma, and none of us is ever going to solve it.

Conclusion: Religious people and agnostics may be right. Atheists, however, can't be right unless they can explain the very existence of the Universe in some way that at least makes a little bit of sense.... You leave yourself some sensible "wiggle-room" when you become an agnostic, but you've totally painted yourself into a corner when you become an atheist!

 

Except for all the Jews. And the Roman Pagans.