Problems With Deut Laws

Deutoronomy has a whole slew of laws which God commands to be obeyed.

Christians say they are to be ignored because they are only Jewish Laws from the Torah.

SO the question I put to you guys is this, if they are to be ignored then why have them in the Bible at all?

Wouldn't it be easier to just print a bible without all those Jewish Laws that are to be ignored?

 

The laws in Deuteronomy (second law) were neither of God or Moses.. they were written by the Levites to generate more revenue in the Temple and read for ratification in the Temple after the Babylonian Exile.

 

More amusing, Christians still quote Deutoronomy as an authority.

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lhhEvfSaSA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lhhEvfSaSA[/ame]

 

More amusing is the so called experts on our faith who often refer to Deuteronomy and make several mistakes.

#1 - Christians, despite the pandantic preaching of atheists, believe that people learn from acknoweldged mistakes. Its about that whole accountability thing again, and the Old Testament is filled with people getting it both right and wrong.

If the lessons are to be taught, you teach the good and the bad. Why would we hide it? We would expect the mature and intelligent to understand these distinctions correct?

#2 - The error in Deuteronomy type thinking, and the reason that it is in the Bible, is that of thinking that excessive rule making and adherence without contextual influence is the way to morality and God. It leads only AWAY from wisdom and God - particularly when it is punishment focused.

The sterotypical example would be stealing. If someone steals to feed a starving family - OK, if they steal because they are greedy? Obviously these two 'sins' do not deserve the same fate - much less death.

And when we read the entire text, we indeed discover that this approach leads to more harm than good ... go figure.



I do think it is interesting that one of the atheists that most often quotes deuteronomy to call Christians murderers and rapists is in this thread scoffing that Christians refer to deuteronomy as an authority?

And atheists think it is wrong or somehow nefarious when people who drop these hypocritical lines are called to task for it?

 

Well then, WHY HAVE THOSE LAWS IN THE BIBLE IN THE FIRST PLACE IF CHRISTIANS ARE TO IGNORE THEM?




The Bible is God's word and law, all you're really doing is just picking and choosing which verse you like and don't like and justifying it after the fact.


Wouldn't it make more sense to just not print the stuff you guys don't want rather than have this crap in it?

 

I have always wondered how someone is to interpret the Bible accurately. On what basis do you determine what is merely parable and what is historical fact? Similarly, how do you determine from a grand list of laws and rules and guidelines, which are proper and meant to be followed, especially if they're from the same source and the general understanding is that this source is infallible and does not make mistakes, which makes having 'good' rules and 'bad' rules an oddity at best?

In short, how does one know the difference between which is man's word and which is the word of God beyond the shadow of a doubt?

 

The 'someone' you speak of who desires to interpret the Bible correctly, will be a believer in God, who is the Author of the Bible. And this believer, in our day, is one who believes Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God and Saviour, and have recieved Him as Lord and Saviour. That is the starting point.

Next, the believer or Christian knows and believes the Bible is the Word of God. From Genesis to Revelation. All of it.

Next, and its not true of all Christians, but they should distinguish that which pertains to the Church, or to Israel, or to the Gentiles. The whole Bible is for the Christian today, but not everything in it is to the Christian. Much is there that we are accountable to walk under. Much is there that is for our learning, but we do not become resposible to walk under it. But it is all the Word of God.

Quantrill

 

The book of Deuteronomy was of God, and Moses. It is the Word of God.

Jesus quoted from it.

By the way, do you think God can part the Red Sea if He wanted to?

Quantrill

 

They are not ignored.

Quantrill

 

With all due respect, this does not answer how the believer is supposed to know, and where you say they should distinguish which pertains to the church, to Israel and to the Gentiles, the question still stands, now with further distinctions; how is the believer to know which is which? Further, you say that the believer is not responsible to walk under everything that is there for learning, and still the same question applies; how is the believer to know which they are supposed to walk under or not?

 

It does answer your question. First of all, we are talking about a born-again believer who has the Spirit of God. Thus he has the testimony of the Spirit of God that the Bible is the Word of God. All of it.

After that, it involves studying the Word of God, to know and understand the Word of God. Quite simple. Christians don't know everything about the Bible when they become Christians. Its given them as spiritual food to grow spiritually and knowlegably.

The Christian knows, or should know, today that we live in the dispensation of the Church age. And thus, we do not walk by the Law, but by the Spirit. The Holy Ghost. How does he know this? Through Bible study.

Quantrill

 

I think that some of the laws of Leviticus and Deuteronomy which most say were written during and after the Babylonian exile are not really applicable at all today.

As a small example (and I am not dissing Kosher here) there weren't any dietary laws at the time of Abraham and no references to them at the time of Moses... They appear late.. and disappear in the NT.

What if these laws were about identity.. the thing that set the Hebrews apart so that they wouldn't assimilate and become Babylnians and foresake their God??

Just a thought.

 

How many commandments are actually from God in the Bible?

And again, your question was answered - that you do not 'like' the answer or lack the desire of discernment is a personal, not intellectual, problem.

 

It probably begins by realizing that there is an old testament and a new testament.

You do so by study - with a genuine desire to learn and understand. Just like anything else.

How do you learn biology? How is a student to learn that? Same thing.

 

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Many Chrisian feel that the old testament is meaningless to Christians.......Word of God or not, they ignore is......

 

Problem with DUI laws are they have loopholes in them. And it's a money manker for lawyers who specialize.

 

So, the distinction or standard by which a believer may know the difference between allegory and historical fact or between what they have to walk under or not is whatever they arrive at by study?

Tell me, how exactly does a person study the Bible to arrive at exactly how much of the law they have to follow or not when Jesus himself says all of it is to be followed until heaven and earth pass away?

 

Why do you expect people who believe god comes down to (*)(*)(*)(*) a woman and that her child died and came back to life for only 3 days only to die again, will have reason enough to answer you ?

BTW, don't expect Jews or Muslims to reason as well.

 

The distinction in Bible study for the Christian is not between 'allegory and fact', but between 'allegorical interpretation, and literal interpretation'. Any historical reference in the Bible is true as recorded.

Jesus said, '...Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fullfilled.' Matt.5:18

Jesus Christ has fulfilled all the demands of the Law. The Mosaic Law does not cease to exist, but it has no power over Christ, who was under the Law when on this earth. The Law found no fault in Christ. Christ suffered and died and rose the third day. The Chrisitan, when he places faith in Christ, is identified with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection, by the Holy Spirit. Thus the Christian also is in a place where the Law has no power over him.

The Christian does not walk by the Law's demands at all. The Christian walks by the Spirit of God. Which Spirit he has.

Quantrill

 

matthew 5:17-20
“do not think that I have come to abolish the law
or the prophets; i have not come to abolish them
but to fulfill them."​

they altered the core of the belief, the structure if you will,
they also altered the injeel.
then they altered some more in the iznik council.
then some more in king james versions.
then...

 

In the same breath you say it is all interpretation, whether allegorical or literal, and then pose that any historic reference is true as recorded, and this itself is merely interpretation and you are still avoiding my question. I'll rephrase it with the new appropriate terminology. How is the person studying the bible supposed to determine what is allegorical and what is literal; by what standard or metric are they supposed to distinguish between the two?

This is all more interpretation, and considering it is ignoring that specific passage, it is decidedly a bad interpretation. Clearly he is telling them, and us by extension that the Mosaic law is to be upheld and followed in its entirity until he returns and heaven and earth cease to exist. Jesus not being subject to that law has nothing to do with what he said here and further, in a related passage he says directly that he is not come to abolish the law but uphold it and that anyone who does not uphold it completely, or at least better than the scribes and pharissees at least will not gain entry to Heaven. So, I will ask again, how is a person to study the bible, calling themself a Christian or a follower of Christ and think they've found a way to ignore or supercede the word of Jesus himself?

 

That's a good thought, and maybe one of the more studied visitors can say how accurate that is. For right now i'd like to know on what authority believers get to decide for themselves what applies to them or not before they are no longer actually believers.

 

Thank you for your response. However, my question was not how someone learns the bible, but instead how, when one is studying the bible, do they determine whether something is allegory or literal; what standard or metric is used to determine between the two?

 

Isn't the word "fulfill" rather than "uphold"?

The Levites and their inheritors had no land.. they were custodians in the Temple.. so their income was derived from changing Roman coin into shekels and selling animals for sacrifice.