Proof that Illegals Are Not Taking Jobs From Americans...

Sunnyside;

　
　
　
What paper? It goes to a web site with lots of different information, videos, audios, etc... Is there a specific one that says what you are inferring?
　
　
　

　
Actually it was a time when people were paid better because the cost of living was increasing and the need to raise wages followed suit. Hard work was rewarded, and it made you a productive member of society. Now wages have stagnated over the last few decades and controlled wages have created a society that is more and more dependent on the government. Nobody back then would have offered the same wages for actual “productive labor” at or even close to the same rate as a dishwasher or somebody shoveling manure. Those were considered the menial/unskilled jobs, during that period of time, and rarely did they pay over the minimum, unless the business was profitable, and was willing to pay better wages to insure they had “skilled“ “productive” workers. Today wages are pretty much the same whether you wash dishes at Chili's, or work on a construction site. There is no incentive to work hard, since you can dig ditches or sit in video store, and make the same wage, and still be eligible for government subsidies to make up for the terrible wages you are given without any form of negotiation.
　
　
Today none of that matters, because the job market has been flooded with illegal aliens, allowing companies and businesses to keep wages unrealistically below the actual cost of living. Like I said an honest days work was not considered demeaning, and a person who was willing and able to work, could/should be able to make a decent living that was in relation to the actual cost of living. Not saying they should be living a life of luxury but in the majority of these positions they shouldn’t be eligible for government handouts to supplement their sub-standard income either. By substandard I mean, ain’t enough to live on, something that is missing from most jobs these days.
　
Workers these days aren’t even considered to the level of tools. A company will pay extra for a hammer that will do the job proficiently, but a human being has been reduced to the level of a cockroach, and if you can’t live off the crumbs left for you on the floor, somehow it’s always your fault.
　
　
　

　
　
Actually the numbers jump significantly when the numbers are not played with. How many people start and how many finish, whether they go on to get a GED or not are drop outs. What they choose to do later is of little/no significance, if we are looking at the failures of the school systems, something they would rather not discuss, and they will fluff what ever numbers are necessary to make it appear better than it really is.
　
　

　
　
Just another manipulative term that allows the facts to be skewed, like discussing percentages because they come across less significant as the real numbers. In any case when we were doing well (all of us, not just the deserving class), all productive members of society were considered middle class, and now the 90%-95% highest paid are the middle class, not people who actually have to work for a living. (see link below)
　
　
MOF;

　
If you start out financially independent I’m sure it does, but for the overwhelming majority who were not born with silver implements of destruction hanging out of every orifice, these days, nothing is guaranteed, or even remotely a sure thing. While you are racking everything up to jealousy and laziness, the rich man’s economy is crumbling around our ears, and destroying what once was a robust economy.
　
　
　
http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/disturbing-statistics-on-the-decline-of-americas-middle-class/19676292/
　
　

 

The site yanked down the paper, and so you were getting redirected to their main page.

I found it again here:
http://tcf.org/publications/2008/5/pb482/pdf

But you might want to click fast.

　

No. The wages given in the paper were adjusted for cost of living.

You really were in a period of history where unskilled labor wages had no precident and nothing like it has occured since anywhere or anywhen as far as I can tell.

While perhaps I'd consider your work more "worthy" it's a bit like the house flippers who do a month of work and than resell a house for twice what they paid. It was a freak time. In many ways a perfect storm in that not only were you getting paid more than the average college grad, but there wasn't so much to spend them on. For example did the people you know even have or talk about health insurance? It was around, but I don't believe it was remotely the beast it is today.


I hope you took the time to appreciate it while you were there.

Hmmm. So with my question I take it the answer is a combination of different types of jobs paying much different values, and probably a bit of the minority thing too regarding competition for certain jobs.

　
There is still an incentive to work hard in that you could get promoted or a raise etc. I do think construction still pays better in many cases. But you're generally right. And that comes from the fact that the drywall hanger and the video clerk have roughly the same qualifications. It's just a matter of which you dislike more, dealing with customers or sweating.

Despite your resentment of the similar wages. I've got a hunch you'd rather sweat a little.


　

Alright, I'll grant that the term middle class means different things at different times. About the only time it was clear was when it was used to indicate the people between the serfs and nobels, the artisans and the like.

Generally speaking the middle class has meant the professional class. You, however, seemed to have experienced a period of time when the high school dropout and the college grad could make the same amount of money.
　
To be honest with you, it's easy to see how something like that can be held up on a pedistal.

And given that it occured once, in principle it could occur again. However what I think you might have to get over is this concept that it is the default state, and if the cotten ginners aren't getting paid more than the college grads something or someone must be disrupting the natural order. Look back through the history of mankind and see that it isn't so.



　

 

Yes it says most of the things I was talking about Sunnyside. The workers are losing track and the educated, demonize and vilify the working class and have assumed not only their reasonable share of the profits created, but since they obviously are so much more deserving they also absorbed most of the money that should have been going to the worker bees all along.
　
　
CEO's and executives made 40 times what the average "worker" made 30 years ago, and today they are nearing the 500 times as much mark. In the paper you supplied it also shows that an educated individual might make 30% on average to the average working class wage earner, but by 2005 that difference raised to over 60% that of an average working class wage earner. For the most part the working jobs are not being replaced, they are being purposely devalued, and demeaned as unworthy and unacceptable positions of perpetual poverty. Just pointing out the facts.
　

　
Inflation is not the same as "cost of living", and for the last 30 years everything from rent to bread has increased at a much higher rate than inflation. Medical costs alone, has steadily increased in the last decade at an annual rate of 14%. According to the paper you supplied, more government is the key and more government subsidies are needed to correct the balance? More competitiveness is needed, but with the government running interference for the selective few, controlled prices, stagnating wages, and supplemental programs to support income deficiencies, as well as the feds turning a blind eye to the illegal invasion that makes it impossible to obtain a realistic balance between the power monopolies have over the average worker, a livable wage will continue to be out of reach.
　
　

　
　
I don't mind getting my hands dirty even today. But I place value on a persons time, and the energy they use to provide it. I don't believe the janitor should be the highest paid person in the company, but placing the value of any human being that accomplishes a job at below the cost of living is an unconscionable, despicable act of tyranny fitting of a supremacist.
　
　
The declining middle class is evidence that most of the economic choices made in the last 30 years may have created an unnatural profit margin, has devastated an economic structure that “was” beneficial to everybody involved. If the trend continues it will eventually financially devastate this country into bankruptcy.

 

If you don't want to talk about the reality of the situation why did you start the thread???
　
　
The federal government and both political parties have allowed illegal aliens to flood the market for decades to give the employers the superior advantage through numbers alone, keeping wages at a consistent low. Add to that the corporate owned government providing subsidies to support insufficient wages which allows employers to continue to pay as little as possible to the peasants who “are“ working. But not to worry in the mean time the cost of living continues to rise while wages, for 30 years in the working class and for the last decade for the average college graduate, are stagnating. That's not whining Man on Fire, it is the reality of the situation. Wake up and (*)(*)(*)(*) man, the world’s on fire!!!

 

You stating that farm work is hard has nothing whatsoever to do with illegal immigration.

There is no connection.

There is zero logic to saying ...farm work is hard so let an invasion of welfare collecting foreigners flood over the border.

Farm work has nothing to do with it, no matter how hard you say it is.

We decide who and how many immigrate here.
Canada doesn't decide and neither does Mexico.

Does any American suggest that because farm work is hard therefore Canadians should be ordered to not watch hockey or drink Molsons?

But you think it makes sense to suggest that Americans should hand over tax money to illegals for schooling, welfare, free medical, and cash rewards for getting knocked up based on something as trivial as how hard YOU say farm work is?

Food will never go out of vogue even if they have to pay Americans to farm it.

 

I just read that SS will not be increased because for two years now there has been little to no inflation. Why does the US government say this yet you say cost of living continues to rise?

So you believe it's been a big conspiracy between government and employers to allow illegals into the USA? You can't fathom that perhaps this illegal scenario goes back decades to migrant farm workers, and has simply grown over the decades to the scope it is today?

I'm an employer and I don't set wages?? I pay whatever the market is demanding. I decide how much I can hire based on labor costs, etc. I DO NOT set wages! I don't know of a single legitimate business who controls the wages of US workers...do you?

 

They're taking jobs from blacks, which means blacks have nothing else to do but commit crimes.

 

　
　
Inflation? That isn't cost of living, when rent continues to rise along with just about everything in the grocery store, that’s cost of living, not inflation.
　
　

　
　
Dems want them here to get an illegal vote here and there in their favor, and repubs want them here to exploit their labor. And lobbyists and special interests are smack dab in the middle of it. This is a secret??
　
　

　
　
So you don't pay anybody until the crops come in??
　
　

　
　
Buy hiring illegal aliens they do just that. It eliminates competition and does nothing to encourage it. And yes just about every "business" I can think of has set wages unrealistically low for many decades now, and today they all work closely with their competition, monopolizing entire industries, to assure that a fixed rate of employment doesn't cause an increase in value to labor across the board. Labor doesn't negotiate wages, they are told immediately without hesitation what the pay is and there's the door otherwise. You as the employer has "all" the advantage, when it comes to establishing a maximum wage, and that is a reality in most every industry!
　
　

　
　
I don't have any problems, this country however is going down like lead turd in a fish bowl. Thanks for your concern though.
　

　
　
The only problem is, that may not exactly take the direction you are shooting for.

 

Quite frankly, your responses here are so off-base that I can't begin to give you any comments. I suspect your mind is made up, based on information which is 100% fabricated, and this cannot be debated. Sorry...

 

Now, this post is just retarded...

Really...

BLACK MAN: Well, now that I'm done with high school and college is right around the corner - I think that I'll commit crimes because some hispanic dude is selling oranges on the corner... Or picking them out of a tree... Or better yet - cleaning gutters for under minimum wage... All of it - any job - for under minimum wages... I think - I THINK I'LL ROB A STORE!!!

(*)(*)(*)(*) you hispanics!!!

I hope you see how ridiculous your post was. Before of posting things to make yourself look... Well... You can ask the posters here to let you know what they thought of your post and I think they would be happy to let you know, but I do suggest that you go to www.census.gov and research this before you just start posting ridiculous things you've heard from your hometown Ninny circle please..

Blacks commit more crimes becasue of hispanics taking their jobs... wow...

 

According to my very favorite radio station, Whites are now committing more crimes by killing Blacks, Latinos, Chinese, Indians, and some Mormons, and actually in this order, because Whites cannot afford to live on illegals wages. Other Whites are killing simply because 'others' are taking all those great jobs that Whites refuse to do. It's a real conundrum...

 

Blacks have low IQ according to Rushton, Lynn, Jensen, et al. Many of them won't be going to college or finishing it. Sorry.

 

Inflation doesn't equal cost of living!
　
　
Hiring illegal aliens is illegal and bad for the economy.
　
　
　
Paying low wages, stagnating wages, and suppressed wages, causes a burden on the federal government, does nothing to help the economy, and costs "ALL" productive members of society, AKA taxpayers!
　
　
Just admit there is nothing to debate when establishing the facts based on reality.

 

Measuring inflation to determine the cost of living is like watering your grass according to how the neighbors yard looks. One has nothing to do with the other.
　
　
Very good article.　
　
Inflation vs. income
http://www.allbusiness.com/finance/620369-1.html
　

You may continue to ignore the truth but the rest of us are not as blind as you would like.

 

Another retarded post.... Are you using a Speak and Spell? That study was taken all over the world. Why don't you stick with the US only instead of comparing Africans to Japanese people. Think you can do that? Maybe? Are you capable? Need some help from mom or some meds to keep you focused?

Also, I think you should read up on things before people start thinking your idiotic because you post idiotic things...

I think in the little post you've done already they think your a redneck racist with a low IQ (a lot lower than those blacks tested) that probably got a hold of a book - used some fancy software in your Speak and Spell and now you be edjew'mikated...

 

Wrong. I can't believe anybody would actually believe this non-sense.

 

That article basically said what I'd said earlier. Inflation and CPI are defined in terms of the same sort of things.

The price of a hamburger in year X vs the cost of a similar hamburger in year Y.

However what if you don't want a burger? What if suddenly you want the surf and turf, with a bottle of a fine Sauvignon blanc, and a Crème brûlée for dessert?

What if instead of washing your own clothes you want someone else to dry clean your clothing while you have three people giving you a massages and a manicure while you wait?

That's going beyond inflation, and it's what's going on with medicine.


I don't think that doctars are charging particularily more for their time. It's just that instead of getting a few pills and being told to call them in the morning, your getting dozens of doctors working on you all night, or you're getting under a proton therapy machine. A 150 million dollar piece of equipment the size of a building all working to shoot radiation through your head into a tumor.

So the issue is, does the existance of TVs the size of your wall, hosues far bigger than they used to be, and all that other stuff mean that we should redifine what inflation means, or what wages should be able to cover?

I'd say that doesn't make sense.

 

Facts are facts. The same reason why negroes are absent from academia is the same reason why they are plentiful in the world of sports - genes.

 

Yeah right...inflation has no impact whatsoever on the cost of living...gimme a fricken break...

 

Perhaps it's because my response to an other's stupid and racial post could best be done with a little humor. And...lots of people actually believe this nonsense which partially explains the gross discrimination of others in the USA. We're all so fricken righteous it's sickening...

 

we need immigrant worked their is not enough American workers to fill the jobs. I have a drywalling business I pay $8.00 an hour and all that I get interested in a job are Mexicans.

 

I'm afraid you've come upon this thread rather late.

But the upshot of the argument of people saying that the immegrants are bad, is that if you didn't have interested Mexicans, you'd be paying $16 dollars and hour, maybe more. And at some point Americans would want to take your jobs. You'd still be competitive because all the other drywall companies would also be paying similar rates.

It's just people would have to pay more for their drywall.

Thoughts on that?

 

I'm a farmer and never once has there been a white-bread American at the labor halls ready to work in farming. I pay $10-$15/hour depending on the work. Without the migrant farm workers, no matter their country of origin, we would be out of business...