Prophets of God, The devil and Life.

Good that you seek the Truth

I do no know what you would do if you were there. Regardless, you can read his words now in Matt 5-7. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5-7&version=NIV

Do keep in mind "The rule that sums up the law and the prophets - the Golden Rule Matt 7:12" and the many ways that Jesus restates this rule.

After you have read the Sermon on the mount.

This is how Jesus sums up his sermon (Matt 7)
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven"......

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
What is the salvation formulation that Jesus gives in this Sermon ?

'''''According to the words of Jesus in this sermon (not man made dogma) '''''what is "the will of the Father" ?

John 6:40
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:36-38
"But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 6:32-34
"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread."

John 6:35
"And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst."

John 6:38-39
"For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

'''''According to the words of Jesus in this sermon (not man made dogma) '''''what is "the will of the Father" ?

 

↑Delade wrote:
Well regardless... If you didn't find something amiss in your life, you would be enjoying your life rather than trying to teach about The Bible to those who might be seeking Truths from The Holy Bible.

Giftedone wrote:
You are free to live in what ever fantasy you wish. This is no reason to shoot the messenger - demonize those who present information that conflicts with spoon fed dogma.

I seek the Truth and let the chips fall where they may. The one who has issues is the one who tries to fit the Bible into man made dogma rather than read what the Bible has to say.

You are not seeking the truth from the Holy Bible. You are trying to make the Bible fit into dogma so that you can pretend that this dogma is the truth.

If you are seeking the Truth .. at least the Truth according to Jesus .. read the Sermon on the Mount "Objectively" = pretend you do not know anything else about Christianity - like someone in the audience listening to Jesus - as the NT did not exist. Matt 5-7

In Matt 7:12 Jesus states the rule that "sums up the law and the prophets". https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7

Once you are finished we can talk about "The Truth" if that is what you are truly interested in.

 

↑Delade wrote:
Here is my take on the account of Job.

One day the hearts of men came before God to present themselves before the Lord, and also the hearts which held accusations and spite. The Lord said to those accusative hearts, where have you come from?

The accusative heart chides God saying, well yeah Lord, you gave him everything anyone could want. Try taking that stuff away and see what happens.

God takes those accusative hearts up on their challenges but tells those hearts to do no harm to him.

So for what purpose would God 'agree' with the accusative hearts in any and every Generation?

Ezekiel 33:11
"Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live:..."
Nice try at avoiding the uncomfortable mention of the "Sons of God" but, this is not the only mention.

Giftedone wrote:
The reality is that the God of Abraham was "EL" chief God of the Sumerian Pantheon. The Israelite's after Moses believed in a Divine Council .. a Pantheon. This did not make them polytheistic as they only worshiped YHWH.... or rather, were only supposed to worship YHWH. The Israelite's did not spend much time worshiping YHWH. The story in the Deuteronomy has El dividing up the nations among his son's. The descendants of Jacob were given to YHWH.

http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/DT32BibSac.pdf

Over time the pantheistic nature of the Israelite religion was slowly erased. (See Page 7 in above link). After comparing the Masoretic Text (7-900AD) to the older Qumran and LXX ( pre AD). Compare the verse in question to a modern Bible. The meaning is completely lost and altered.

El is also referenced in Psalm 82. http://www.jhsonline.org/Articles/article_144.pdf

That El was the God of Abraham (or at least figured prominently) is no longer much debated among serious scholars.
Yahweh and El ʿElyon. It is known that, on the matter of the revelation of Yahweh to man, the biblical traditions differ. According to what scholars call the Yahwistic source (J) in the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Bible), Yahweh had been known and worshiped since Adam’s time. According to the so-called Priestly source (P), the name of Yahweh was revealed only to Moses. It may be concluded that it was probably El whom the patriarchs, including Abraham, knew.

As noted before, in Mesopotamia the patriarchs worshiped “other gods.” On Canaanite soil, they met the Canaanite supreme god, El, and adopted him, but only partially and nominally, bestowing upon him qualities destined to distinguish him and to assure his preeminence over all other gods. He was thus to become El ʿOlam (God the Everlasting One), El ʿElyon (God Most High), El Shaddai(God, the One of the Mountains), and El Roʾi (God of Vision). In short, the god of Abraham possessed duration, transcendence, power, and knowledge. This was not monotheism but monolatry (the worship of one among many gods), with the bases laid for a true universalism. He was a personal god too, with direct relations with the individual, but also a family god and certainly still a tribal god. Here truly was the “God of our fathers,” who in the course of time was to become the “God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Abraham

 

↑Giftedone wrote:
Nice try at avoiding the uncomfortable mention of the "Sons of God" but, this is not the only mention.

The reality is that the God of Abraham was "EL" chief God of the Sumerian Pantheon. The Israelite's after Moses believed in a Divine Council .. a Pantheon. This did not make them polytheistic as they only worshiped YHWH.... or rather, were only supposed to worship YHWH. The Israelite's did not spend much time worshiping YHWH. The story in the Deuteronomy has El dividing up the nations among his son's. The descendants of Jacob were given to YHWH.

http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/DT32BibSac.pdf

Over time the pantheistic nature of the Israelite religion was slowly erased. (See Page 7 in above link). After comparing the Masoretic Text (7-900AD) to the older Qumran and LXX ( pre AD). Compare the verse in question to a modern Bible. The meaning is completely lost and altered.

El is also referenced in Psalm 82. http://www.jhsonline.org/Articles/article_144.pdf

That El was the God of Abraham (or at least figured prominently) is no longer much debated among serious scholars.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Abraham


Delade wrote:
Is this what you really believe The Holy Bible is telling you?

 

↑Delade wrote:
Is this what you really believe The Holy Bible is telling you?


Giftedone wrote:
Yes ... it is all in the Holy Bible. All the evidence in the links given you are from the Holy Bible (links which you clearly did not read)... which version of the Holy Bible are you referring to btw ?
Clearly you have not read the Bible with any objectivity. If you had you would realize that what is in the Bible differs greatly from spoon fed dogma.

 

OP is a nignog

 

↑Giftedone wrote:
Good that you seek the Truth

I do no know what you would do if you were there. Regardless, you can read his words now in Matt 5-7.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5-7&version=NIV

Do keep in mind "The rule that sums up the law and the prophets - the Golden Rule Matt 7:12" and the many ways that Jesus restates this rule.

After you have read the Sermon on the mount.

This is how Jesus sums up his sermon (Matt 7)


What is the salvation formulation that Jesus gives in this Sermon ?

According to the words of Jesus in this sermon (not man made dogma) what is "the will of the Father" ?



Delade wrote:

John 6:40
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:36-38
"But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 6:32-34
"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread."

John 6:35
"And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst."

John 6:38-39
"For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

1 John 3:23
"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. "

 

Your avatar of Mr. Obama breaches privacy issues, is libel, and is wrong and rude.

2 Peter 2:10-11
"But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord."

 

Giftedone said: ↑
Why are you referencing John ? The discussion is in relation to the Sermon on the Mount which is given in Matt.

What is the salvation formulation given in the Sermon on the Mount and what is the "Will of the Father" according to the words of Jesus in that Sermon.

 

↑Delade wrote:
Well regardless... If you didn't find something amiss in your life, you would be enjoying your life rather than trying to teach about The Bible to those who might be seeking Truths from The Holy Bible.


Giftedone wrote:
You are free to live in what ever fantasy you wish. This is no reason to shoot the messenger - demonize those who present information that conflicts with spoon fed dogma.

I seek the Truth and let the chips fall where they may. The one who has issues is the one who tries to fit the Bible into man made dogma rather than read what the Bible has to say.

You are not seeking the truth from the Holy Bible. You are trying to make the Bible fit into dogma so that you can pretend that this dogma is the truth.

If you are seeking the Truth .. at least the Truth according to Jesus .. read the Sermon on the Mount "Objectively" = pretend you do not know anything else about Christianity - like someone in the audience listening to Jesus - as the NT did not exist. Matt 5-7

In Matt 7:12 Jesus states the rule that "sums up the law and the prophets". https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7

Once you are finished we can talk about "The Truth" if that is what you are truly interested in.

 

↑Giftedone wrote:
You are free to live in what ever fantasy you wish. This is no reason to shoot the messenger - demonize those who present information that conflicts with spoon fed dogma.

I seek the Truth and let the chips fall where they may. The one who has issues is the one who tries to fit the Bible into man made dogma rather than read what the Bible has to say.

You are not seeking the truth from the Holy Bible. You are trying to make the Bible fit into dogma so that you can pretend that this dogma is the truth.

If you are seeking the Truth .. at least the Truth according to Jesus .. read the Sermon on the Mount "Objectively" = pretend you do not know anything else about Christianity - like someone in the audience listening to Jesus - as the NT did not exist. Matt 5-7

In Matt 7:12 Jesus states the rule that "sums up the law and the prophets". https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7

Once you are finished we can talk about "The Truth" if that is what you are truly interested in.


Delade wrote:
Okay, I'm ready to discuss what the Truth is.



Giftedone wrote:
"If you are seeking the Truth .. at least the Truth according to Jesus .. read the Sermon on the Mount "Objectively" = pretend you do not know anything else about Christianity - like someone in the audience listening to Jesus - as the NT did not exist. Matt 5-7 "


Delade wrote:
If I was there, would I try to listen to him objectively because His words were not clear enough for me?

 

Besides, what would The Sermon on the Mount have to do with Patheistic ways of worship that you claimed The Sons of Jacob were involved with?


↑Giftedone wrote:
Nice try at avoiding the uncomfortable mention of the "Sons of God" but, this is not the only mention.

The reality is that the God of Abraham was "EL" chief God of the Sumerian Pantheon. The Israelite's after Moses believed in a Divine Council .. a Pantheon. This did not make them polytheistic as they only worshiped YHWH.... or rather, were only supposed to worship YHWH. The Israelite's did not spend much time worshiping YHWH. The story in the Deuteronomy has El dividing up the nations among his son's. The descendants of Jacob were given to YHWH.

http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/DT32BibSac.pdf

Over time the pantheistic nature of the Israelite religion was slowly erased. (See Page 7 in above link). After comparing the Masoretic Text (7-900AD) to the older Qumran and LXX ( pre AD). Compare the verse in question to a modern Bible. The meaning is completely lost and altered.

El is also referenced in Psalm 82. http://www.jhsonline.org/Articles/article_144.pdf

That El was the God of Abraham (or at least figured prominently) is no longer much debated among serious scholars.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Abraham

 

No, but the passage where the Morning Star is quoted, and has been translated to be 'lucifer' when going to latin is specifically talking about King Neb. If you look at Isaiah 14:4 it specifically says it is a parable, and it is against the King of Babylon

From http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/15945#showrashi=true

 

Please learn how to use the quote function. My question is"NOT" what you would do if you were there.

My question is not "are the words of John" man made dogma.

Why are you avoiding addressing what Jesus said in his most famous sermon ? .. Avoiding the Truth.

 

We are on a different topic. That the Israelite's believed in a Pantheon has nothing to do with the current discussion. If you want to revisit the Israelite devotion to YHWH in the OT we can do that.

You said you were interested in "The Truth" .. as it relates to the message of Jesus.
I started by giving you the Golden Rule - "Do unto Others/Treat others as you would be treated".

Jesus put major emphasis on this rule. He said this rule "Sums up the law and the prophets"

A main question of any religious belief is how one gets through the pearly gates.
The question to you then is - what is the salvation formulation given by Jesus in his most famous Sermon.

You seem desperate to ignore the teachings of Jesus in this Sermon. Why ?

 

Okay, let me see if I got this right. You want to know what my thoughts are on how to be 'saved' only according to the Sermon on the Mount?


The Sermon on the Mount
1And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: 2And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,

The Beatitudes


3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

5Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

7Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

8Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

9Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

10Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Salt and Light


13Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

14Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Jesus Fulfills the Law
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Anger and Reconciliation


21Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Adultery


27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Divorce
)

31It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Vows


33Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Love Your Enemies


38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

 

So: 20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. - is a way.

 

Good job ... although you did not have to quote so much. I know the sermon well. Good works and obeying the commands would have sufficed.

Thus .. when Jesus says

He is referring to contents of this sermon.

I would add to your summary - "the golden rule" do unto others and various restatement of this rule. Judge not, Let ye who is without sin cast the first rock and so on. Must remember that this is the rule that sums up the entire law and the prophets.

Nowhere in this sermon is there anything about "have faith in me". Nothing much in Mark for that matter either. A Judeo Christian in the first century was not a believer in Sola Fide "salvation by faith alone". It was good works by which one was saved.

This is further stressed in the sheep and goats parable. Matt 25:31 - Those that do not know Jesus but help the poor get in to heaven.
Those that know Jesus but do not help the poor do not.

These are the final words in the sermon. It is putting his words into practice that is important ... not the foolish idea that one can just call "Jesus Jesus" all day long and this is enough.

So then ... it is not that one has to be perfect or that one can not sin. Another important teaching is the concept of forgiveness. Jesus says any sin can be forgiven except a sin against the spirit. I puzzled for a long time over this one but think I figured it out.

Just follow the golden rule and be a good person .. don't be an ****** and one is good to go.

This is not only the teachings of Jesus but ... it makes good logical sense on many other levels.

 

"Good job ... although you did not have to quote so much. I know the sermon well. Good works and obeying the commands would have sufficed.

Thus .. when Jesus says
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
He is referring to contents of this sermon.

I would add to your summary - "the golden rule" do unto others and various restatement of this rule. Judge not, Let ye who is without sin cast the first rock and so on. Must remember that this is the rule that sums up the entire law and the prophets.

Nowhere in this sermon is there anything about "have faith in me". Nothing much in Mark for that matter either. A Judeo Christian in the first century was not a believer in Sola Fide "salvation by faith alone". It was good works by which one was saved.

This is further stressed in the sheep and goats parable. Matt 25:31 - Those that do not know Jesus but help the poor get in to heaven.
Those that know Jesus but do not help the poor do not.

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
These are the final words in the sermon. It is putting his words into practice that is important ... not the foolish idea that one can just call "Jesus Jesus" all day long and this is enough.

So then ... it is not that one has to be perfect or that one can not sin. Another important teaching is the concept of forgiveness. Jesus says any sin can be forgiven except a sin against the spirit. I puzzled for a long time over this one but think I figured it out.

Just follow the golden rule and be a good person .. don't be an ****** and one is good to go.

This is not only the teachings of Jesus but ... it makes good logical sense on many other levels."
--------------------------------------------------------------

If you were asking of The Sermon on The Mount, where did '21', Matthew 25, and '24' come out of?


If your attempt was to out 'teach' another person using knowledge, remember what The Holy Bible says...

James 3:1 ISV
"Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more severely than others."


Pleasing God and pleasing man and ourselves are 2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things.

James 3:1 ISV
"Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more severely than others."

Galatians 1:10
"For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ."

Acts 15:27-29
"We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. 28For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."


Keep yourselves in these and you shall be demonstrating your faith to God by keeping these good deeds.

Seek to please God first, man second.

There is no Law of God which says that Gentiles need to keep God's Laws to the Jews.


Are you a Jew? Then, Mark 10:42-44 "But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. 43But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: 44And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all."

Are you a Gentile? Then, Galatians 2:14 "But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?"