Protesters topple Silent Sam Confederate statue at UNC

Of course it is dissent, and when America never allows dissent it will become a totalitarian state.

 

Good grief. You described the voting system used by all. Democrats vote to disenfranchise republicans and vice versa. You make it seem one sided. But face facts, Democrats would rather fry in hell than elect any republican.

I fight democrats over some very primary habits they have.
Let me enumerate some of those habits.
1. They arrive in DC hell bent to write more laws.
2. The refuse to remove laws that prove harmful. To wit. ACA and Dodd Franks
3. They love taxes. So much so they wake up in the morning trying to raise taxes.
4. Laws are designed to remove freedom. A traffic light law can do good but it restricts freedom to choose.
5, Tax laws are evil. Congress does have taxing authority but when the constitution was created, not on our incomes.
6. I hate to introduce this, but factually this is accurate. Democrats have been at the helm of power for our worst wars since 1900. Republicans created wars have low number of casualties.
7. FDR in my own opinion is the master craftsman of socialism for the USA. He kicked the constitution in it's nuts with his laws. He did not suffer any problems fighting the supreme court. He waged war on the Supreme court.

I will tell you what spun me from democrat to republicans in as few words as i am able.
1. At a doctors office, I learned of a great book. It's readers have said over and over, this book must be used in schools and taught to citizens. This book is A Time for Truth. Written by William E. Simon, he lays bare government.

2. Reading this book thinking it would make me a better Democrat, quickly proved to me my schools failed me in government.
3. I decided to prove the book wrong. I read founding documents. I read Thomas Pains exposure of government. I read and read all kinds of books. Took me 2 years to learn but boy did i learn. i realized I voted for the wrong people. Had I not helped elect Kennedy, we might not have had the bay of pigs nor the nuclear stand off with the Soviets. Had I not done worse and elected Johnson, we could have had a civil rights law that credited the correct people. Johnson was a hog for credit though he did write a nice letter to R Everett Dirksen thanking him for what he did.

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/0619.html#article

 

Yes, I thought you might pick up on that. I used the word deliberately. But I'm optimistic, and I think we'll see the end
of slavery in Africa sometime this century. Terrible, imposing European values on the Third World.

 

I went to an Air Show last month: lots of the latest military hardware -- beautiful airplanes zooming around doing impressive acrobatics. Wonderful. So glad the people of the world are spending their money on these amazing machines instead of on supersonic vacuum trains that could take you from New York to London in an hour, exploring the oceans, building MRI machines, finding the cure for cancer, trying to making fusion power work, and other boring stuff. Great fun.

The Germans were there -- although their air force is largely ineffective, the few Typhoons they have that actually work are very pretty. The Japanese were there, with a large military cargo plane they showed you through. Very friendly and polite. (Very important, logistics, although less yielding of exciting YouTube videos.) I'm glad both of these peoples are on the side of democracy now.

But I have to say that it was slightly ... unnerving? incongruous? what's the right word?-- to see the Rising Sun flag, and the German Cross (Iron Cross?) at this air show.




I have this reflex response when I see either of these symbols. A little voice says "Auschwitz!", "Babi Yar!" "Oradour!" and "Nanking!", 'Pearl Harbor!" "Bataan Death March!".. But I tell the little voice to shut up. They're on our side now, and any German or Japanese person you meet today who might have been at an of these places probably has senile dementia. (In fact, if I happened to find out where a 97 year old Auschwitz guard was living, somewhere in America, I wouldn't turn him over to that nasty Mr Trump who would deport him.)

We've all decided to agree that these are national symbols, not political ones, while also acknowledging that these nations don't have the pure, clean, stainless history of never killing innocent people or torturing anyone that our own country does..

Now let's consider the Confederate Flag, and monuments to Confederate Soldiers. Leave aside the "treason" bulls**t, which no one, definitely not the admirers of Jane Fonda and the flag-burners, believes for one second. I'm surprised these people can use the word with a straight face.

The serious charge is: does the Confederate Flag, do the statues of Southern soldiers, "stand for" slavery and racial oppression?

Of course, in some sense they do. They're bound up in the history of the South, which very much had Black slavery at its center, and which was the cause of the Civil War. (All the lawyers' arguments about secession are just as good as the lawyers' arguments about 'treason' -- just that, lawyers' arguments designed to obscure the reality.)

Just as when you see the two symbols above, depending on who you are, you either have some sort of national feeling, if you're German or Japanese, or a different feelings, if you're Polish or Jewish or Russian or ... in the case of the first one, and different feelings if you're Chinese or Korean or a survivor of the Bataan Death March in the case of the second. Assuming you know any history.

But we've decided that we'll go with the 'national' meaning. That's why I told my little voice to shut up.

And that's what we should do with the Confederate Flag. Of course contemporary German nationalists, often thinly-disguised Nazis (no 'neo' about it) will use the German national symbol for their own aims, as will Japanese nationalists use theirs. In the US, the American flag is actually the one you'll see the most distasteful far-right people carrying. They do it because they're trying to get some of cachet of the national symbol for their own slimy ends.

Yes, Southerners aren't a full-fledged 'nation' in the sense that the Germans or the Japanese are -- we shouldn't use the word 'nation' for them. They're a 'sub-nation', to invent a term, the way many other groups in the US are. They have, or had -- it's fading now -- a kind of collective identity. It's not one bound up with slavery, but with other things, some noble, some just the defiance of people who are not the winners in life, the 'rednecks'. (Who actually have a lot in common with inner-city Blacks -- so much so that the distinguished social scientist Thomas Sowell a book about slavery and similar issues. Black Rednecks and White Liberals. It's the first essay in the book. A reader summarizes it thus:

One more argument: the Confederate Flag was, at one point, fifty years ago, thought by most of us to simply mean 'the South', including its history of slavery, but not featuring or justifying slavery. The fact that it was the white South was also true, but Black people were determined to force their way into full participation into Southern society. And they did. If the Confederate Flag was supposed to be the equivalent of the Swastika, then the Southern Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee, which led the struggle there, could never have issued a badge like this:

or the Mississippi Freedom Democrats a badge like this: [Click on that link to the Mississippi Freedom Democrats to see who they were, and what happened to them at the national convention of the Democratic Party in 1964 -- nothing new under the sun.]


What's really stupid is this: the economic bottom half of Southern whites have almost the exact same problems as the economic bottom half of African-Americans: poor education, poor job prospects, disintegration of the family, drugs. [People who want to really learn more about this need to read J.D. Vance's Hillbilly Elegy, and Charles Murray's Coming Apart. (At least click on those links, which will take you to Amazon.com and you can read the publisher's blurb, and readers' comments.) ]

They, and people who think they care about either or both of them, ought to be seeing how they can tackle these problems together. Instead, the Identity Politics people have diverted attention into an attempt to humiliate the white working class of the South. Idiots.

 

Brian Kemp has my support. His opponent, Stacey Abrams, obviously is incapable of managing her own money with over $200,000 in debts, claiming her first job paying a meager $95,000. Imagine if you owed $50,000 in back taxes how you would be treated.

 

Not the tantrums. I don't take Twitter seriously. Twitter in 2016 was embarrassing as hell

 

Yes, you're the one throwing the tantrums and throwing out race cards. The boy who cried wolf has long passed for you.

 

they are official Presidential statements, but I think most do not take Trump's official statements seriously...

 

People wouldn't take either of the 2016 candidates statements seriously. Remember, the other candidate who you wanted to win, "mysteriously" lost thirty thousand emails that would implicate her in proprietary indiscretion

 

That is a wild unsupported claim. But this is the propaganda shoveled your way by Democrats.

 

no other President was as petty and ego driven as Dirty Donald

 

Hah, what? We've had a President duel with another human over an argument.

 

"Cultural imperialism?" <snickrer> You sound like a leftwinger.

What statutes? Nothing had been removed when the Southern states began seceding.

Huh? There's no federal move to knock down the statues of CSA leaders.

 

This is the sort of discussion that ought to be the normal way to discuss.

Without agreeing with the entire scope of it, at least it comes at you with reason, judgement and education.

Having been raised in the West, we once had next to no blacks. We had more Mexicans than blacks going way way back. They had a reason to be here since Mexico had lost the right to this land. It did not mean all Mexicans got ran back to Mexico. WW2 largely brought the black to the far west. Out here we heard what was happening in the East.

Believe it or not, at one time Detroit was respected. But once the wave of blacks moved in, things got sour and the city fell to dispair.

With some groups, such as the Germans, what you saw from them was improved areas. I spent time in Germany and the pride of neighborhood sticks out in my mind. They keep cities sparkling clean. Why they do is a mystery but they do it. You do not see gangs on the streets of Germany as we see when blacks take over communities. Black parents lose control.

So what is the solution for blacks. First get rid of Ebonics. Stop with the black pride unless it looks classy. The lousy language used by blacks annoys me.

When i was in basic training at Fort Ord, CA, the first thing the sergeants barked at the troops is stop with the black language. Calling all others the insult to mothers and sex was not going to be tolerated. But blacks kept up using the Mother effer term and did not care that authority ordered them to stop doing it.

While a few whites will smear blacks no matter if the man or woman holds a degree or is a teacher or a top notch banker. This is not normal for whites.

Take the sports teams. If blacks stood on the sidelines complaining how lousy it is, they would not go to bat and hit home runs. They would still be in the negro leagues.

 

You think you are speaking with us. But you confront. All I read is raw confrontation. Is that how you do things with your own family?

Gosh, I recall as a Democrat how my family handles things like this. They confront. They call Trump bad names. And then they wonder why people stop listening to them.

 

If Brown should have been hung for treason, what about Jeff Davis and Robert E. Lee?

 

Stacy has managed to round up over half a million voters who support her but Brian collected many more votes. Brian will take it to the bank. If she manages to win, it will be a miracle.

 

Can't debate without acting like a jerk?

No need to reply to my posts. I'll comment on yours and we can leave it at that.

The Bloviator-in-Chief is a disgrace you and your pals inflicted on the country.

 

Can you advance an argument with blathering away about leftists?

 

Confederates lost, that is the reality of it, time to move on

 

In Davis case, he was selected as the president of a collection of states, each with their governor, that used the process we refer to as democracy. This term applies when people are given a case and they vote for the outcome. The South did not form with a band of outlaws. They followed law. They more followed state laws than what they saw from the Federal groups. Still there is no Democrat speaking of the voters of the South voting for the South to be formed. We have read reports from other important founders that such break ups will happen once you shove people around to the point they want a divorce from the other group. What the South did was divorce the north.

Robert E. Lee happened to be an awesome commander. His skills and tactics were what the North taught it's commanders for a very long time. When one says great commanders, Lees name rises to the top. West Point even honors him as one of theirs.



West point MA

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/robert-e-lee-at-west-point/

 

The SCOTUS decided not to prosecute Davis, choosing instead to decide secession in a case over bonds.

If you don't prosecute the leader, how can you prosecute the followers?

 

The Supreme Court made it clear in 1869 that secession was never legal.

Nevertheless, secession was never legal.

 

Many no doubt think Brown was charged by the Federals. But he was charged by the state of VA.


Brown was charged with treason against the Commonwealth of Virginia, multiple first-degree murders, and inciting an insurrection among Virginia slaves. The trial took just over a week, starting on Tuesday, October 25, 1859 and concluding on Wednesday, November 2, 1859.
Virginia v. John Brown - Wikipedia

 

The Supreme Court made it clear in March 1857 that Dred Scott was still a legal slave.

Therefore what Abe the Outlaw did was illegal.

Now do you understand?