PSYCHOANALYSING NATO: CONFIRMATION BIAS

I will take that as a no.

 

Ukraine was a hot-bed of international criminality and political corruption and Putin had to sort it out for the greater good of the population. It's a bit different to the west rampaging all over the planet forcing regime change upon non-threatening countries, and inflicting 'democracy' upon countries whether they want it or not. See the difference? No, you probably don't, you'd rather believe the western narrative on the subject. And it wouldn't surprise me if he knew that radical Islam was getting in on the act too. Putin is no fool - shame it can't be said about our leaders?

 

It speaks volumes about you that you know so little - what depresses me is that you don't realise it.

 

May I ask why people in the United States are upset that allegedly or indeed Russia has influenced the 2016 elections, etc. ... if the US has done so, and not only in reverse, in Russia, but do so worldwide in many other countries since ever?

Do these American people, who are angry about it, really think that only the US can do or is allowed to do that? Seriously?

To this ignorance and in my eyes also a certain naivety, also comes the incredibly stupid hypocrisy!

The US would not allow any other power, such as Russia or China ... and certainly not a declared "**** hole" like Iran ... to do anything in its front yard = Central America or the Caribbean.
On the other hand, of course, that is completely different and these other powers have to accept that the US is moving in its front gardens!
Many Americans have really lost their sense of reality and just as many actually believe that they are the only mafht in the world! Is that actually the American BS media? Is that due to the often lousy school system where many children do not learn what's happening outside the US? Or is it just idiotic ignorance at many Americans?

 

Ignorance is bliss.

 

You should know? lol

 

Didn't your mother teach you not to insult people?

 

Well you did leave yourself wide open??

 

I'll take that as a no.

 

Thanks for this Tecoyah. Your words or a copy and paste job? If the latter - and it has that feel about it (you're usually very brief and succinct) can you please provide a link.

But "a general interpretation..." eh? Not really.

Since the days of those "private" conversations in which Baker and Genscher promised Gorbachev that NATO would not move "one inch to the east" if Gorby agreed to allow the germans to reunify - and despite Baker's and Genscher's and in fact, Gorby's own conflicting recollections - paperwork confirming this stated promise is now available - plus personal accounts given by some of those lesser stars who were present at the meeting.

Baker returned to Washington to tell Poppy Bush about the agreement and Bush exploded saying "we won the war" (to that effect) and he be damned if he would allow the Soviet Union to dictate the terms. Typical patrician Bush attitude if you ask me, because he sent Baker and Genscher to see Gorby to ask for his agreement to let Germany reunify. Gorby was under no compulsion to do so and, in fact, all he asked for was a straight forward promise not to allow NATO to fill the void that the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact would create.

Even those 'lesser stars" present accept that it was an act of bad faith by the Americans. Breaking agreements has become a way of life for the USA it seems.

 

When text is in parenthesis it is a quote and I highlight this fact with italics. The link is always included at the bottom of my posts.

 

Oh okay, I missed that.

A NATO article on the subject can't exactly be said to be unprejudiced or independent can it.

I think the below from the National Security Archive provides a truer picture of what took place, followed by the wholesale breach of promises made.

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-...on-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

 

Unfortunately time and circumstances change many things and though the basic ideals were followed Russia itself became something completely different than expected and an aggressor nation. This forced reaction from many nations including Germany and the United States which led to what we have today. If Russia had maintained its march to democratic governance things would be very different today but they decided not to. Instead we see assassinations and election corruption that leads to sanctioning an already feeble and fragile economy. We get bluster and sword rattling CGI missile threats that make the country seem a bully with no shoes.
Russia (Putin) has done this to itself and deserves no quarter at this point.

 

Consider yourself informed. You're welcome. The Clinton administration was very active in influencing the election of Yeltsin, following instructions from the CIA. Bill was very much a team player.

 

I have been awaiting any actual data you can provide instead of opinion and accusation. Others in this thread have followed the standard debate technique of supplying verifiable or at least credible information and perhaps you could do so as well?

If not your commentary is dismissed as Hyperbolic Trolldom.

 

You're right, I didn't provide a link, sorry. I was observing it as it happened.

There are 2 ways a man can be fooled. One is to believe in something that isn't so, and the other is to refuse to believe what is so.

Please, dismiss my commentary as hyperbolic trolldom. It will make you feel much better.

 

As requested.

 

This is not the case. Poppy Bush objected to the deal immediately and gave Baker a bollocking about it.

I also do not agree with your theory that Russia became an aggressor nation. That, for me, is a projection of America's own dark shadow.

What actually happened was that Gorbachev was ultimately replaced by Yeltsin who had the full support of the USA as he (and they) helped plunder Russia along with the Mafiya. Had Yeltsin worked for a better Russia instead of lining his {and others) pockets things would have worked out very differently (and I know this was the case for a fact because I met with a representative of a member of Yeltsin's group who was selling on the cheap everything they could lay their grubby paws on).



What happened is that Poppy Bush and others of the elite wanted Russia brought to its knees so that it could never rise again, and in working towards that goal they actually caused the very thing they most feared. It could have been so different as the opportunity was there for the taking. Putin was the direct result of American massive arrogance, blind greed and meddling.

 

I see....Have A Nice Day

 

))....yeah they didn't move an "inch"...more like several miles.....anyway, those former WP states basically voted on and ratified being in Nato....so that's why they're there and moving closer....so they should.
4+ decades under a prison system what was CCCP didn't do any favors for these countries, and seems muscovites dont learn well and continue to invade their neighbors).

 

What "hostile" forces you talk about in Crimea?
LDPR overwhelmingly "Russian"....funny, when I was there years back, there was many ukranians too.....you must get your info from Pravda?).

 

Doesn't really matter what those former WP states did r wanted does it. The US and NATO should never have offered any of them NATO membership under the terms of the agreement with Gorbachev.

The West got what they wanted, German reunification and then immediately reneged on the agreement they made. It reeks of bad faith and cynicism.

The fact is that had Poppy Bush and his cohort gone about it differently, rather than trying to pull a fast one, Russia could easily have now been an integral member of the EU and NATO too (Putin floated the idea in 2000).

But so far as I can see the defence sector would rather commit suicide than let that happen; the need for a foreign villain is the only thing that keeps them in perennial clover. Russia is a nation that keeps on giving ------ them mansions, yachts, private jets and all the dripping wealth that accompanies perpetual war.

Never have more nations been more convincingly gulled than post 1991 and again ten years later by the Anglo-American dogs of war.

 

Well yeah, stripey it does matter, it was offered, voted and ratified. Germany reunited, as it should've been...the Berlin Wall was a stupid soviet concept that was doomed from the start.


Immediately reneged, and smells of bad faith?!?)), Something the muscovites are good at, eh stripey??) Being the putinka arse kisser now?

There was no pulling "fast ones" stripey, those former WPs wanted to be and are rather satisfied in NATO right now....and I've been to Poland, Czech, Romania, and asked....yes happy to be in Nato.....commie times were dark and awful.....now you may disagree, but it's your opinion laddie.

Russia couldntc have "easily" been in Nato or EU....too vast, many ethnic tensions, and much of Russia isnt even European.
As for as Russia being in Nato....in 2000, lol, never.....it was broke decrepid, nowhere near being Nato standards, and ethnic tensions(Chechnya).

Much like Ukraine aspiring for Nato today....if it wasn't for the Russki **** disturbers there now, ukraine wouldve been in Nato&E U).



There was yachts, mansions, etc, before Russia started "giving", stripey)

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ntary-ukraines-neo-nazi-problem-idUSKBN1GV2TY

Also:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrap...ea-locals-prefer-moscow-to-kiev/#7ee24675510d

Polls by those notorious Putin propagandists Gallup and GfK.......

 

They have moved far more than a few miles and western covert ops have operated right on Russia's border in Georgia, Azerbaijan, Baltics, etc., and west continues to support and arm far right nationalist governments in Poland and others in order to destabilize Russia's borders.