Question for "Medicare for all" supporters... Does that include illegal aliens?

There are large portions of Mexico that are like South Beach and the bad stuff is around its borders. There own people that do the dirty are criminals just like we have here. Central America and Haiti were very peaceful in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s. I used to spend my vacations there.

 

Again, there is a humane resolution to this crisis and it is not tossing good people out "as per the law". People break laws every day in America. Should they be tossed "as per the law'? The intent of the law is essential to any solution and we have a humanitarian crisis which was not considered when the law was written.
You just don't just read the rule and act accordingly. Have you not ever broken the law? Of course, you have so let's toss you and me out. The laws are what judges interpret them to be and judges have differing opinions.
And I do not have difficulty answering questions because in my experience there is no "yes" or "no" answer to every question.
Usually, I have found that people with a 5th-grade education can't think beyond the "yes or "no".

 

You are rapidly becoming the topic of the thread with your obtuse rhetoric. If you want discussion, then tone it down and let's discuss.

 

The legal consequence for breaking our immigration law is deportation.

So it’s ok to break a law if it’s inconvenient to your personal goals. That’s your argument. If i break the law, I expect to be punished. If I sneak into Canada, I expect to be prosecuted and face the consequences. If I overstay my visa in China, I expect to be “tossed.” China and Canada have a right to control who enters, how, and for how long. Why not the USA?

What other laws are ok to break in your view?

 

Ha ha. My “rhetoric” is rational and fact-based. You are the one trying to argue “good people” should be alllowed to flout our laws en masse because unicorn.

Even if your fallacious claim was correct, I am STILL NOT THE TOPIC OF THiS THREAD. So you are still wrong. Twice.

 

That was your original statement. And you still haven't answered the question I asked: Why?

 

Heh heh. You just don’t like the answer.

 

There are many reasons why somebody who doesn't "comply" with immigration requirements would belong here. For example, because they are in the process of complying. Or because they found themselves here through no fault of their own. And many others. You just make a blanket statement "they don't belong here". And don't justify it. You can't even define what you mean by "belong here" . I have a concept of "belong here". But it's a rational one. And, for that reason, it's likely different from yours. If you even have one.

So you say I "don't like" your answer. Absolutely correct. I don't like 'answers' when they don't respond to the question being asked. Especially, as in this case, because you can't answer. You just throw in your partisan dogma and hope it sticks.

Sorry dude... it doesn't! And it won't in any rational discussion.

 

Do your best to spin it into disfavor. "Collectivist left"? I guess you see 70% of America as "collectivist left". I wish it were.

"Tyranny"? LOL!!!! You're really dedicated to pitch the worst BS you can about this. LOL!!!

Look it up. It's not like this is a secret or like forum "leftists" would be the ones to decide.

Yeahnoshit!!! -to the point of total misrepresentation and bogus mischaracterization.

 

Expecting people to obey the law is now “partisan dogma,” eh? You are creative, I’ll give you that. Dude.

 

I noticed you didn’t actually answer the question posed in the OP. I’m all ears...

 

No laws are ok to break in my view. If I have one beer too many and drive home, I have broken a law and do not expect to be caught.
We are not talking about China. We are talking about a humanitarian crisis which demands compassion and moral compass. If you
sneak into Canada, you do not expect to be caught. How old are you?

 

Are you a white supremacist? Tone it down or this will be our last contact.

 

Except for the immigration laws of the United States, of course.

Nobody expects to be caught when they break the law. So, not the point. Do you expect to be prosecuted if you are caught? Do you expect to suffer the consequences of being caught and prosecuted?

So it's OK for China to have immigration laws, but not the USA. Got it.

If you think the laws are immoral, we can have a discussion about that. Start a thread if you wish and I'll be happy to participate.

But to simply allow people to break the law with impunity because you think they are "good people" is the height of absurdity and has frankly created this "humanitarian crisis" you offer as evidence that we should allow foreign nationals to break the laws of our country because humanitarian crisis! Wow, look at that, circular reasoning! Does your moral compass tell you it's ok to let people break the law if you think they are "good people?"

If we are going to start talking about morality, be prepared to defend the practice of unscrupulous employers knowingly hiring illegal aliens and even helping them break the law in some instances by obtaining phony documents (as was reported at two Trump golf courses recently). Be prepared to defend the practice of the illegal aliens themselves knowingly sneaking across the border or overstaying a visa and/or illegally obtaining employment and/or public benefits. Be prepared to defend the practice of sanctuary jurisdictions where lawmakers who swore an oath to uphold the law are actively engaged in aiding and abetting known law breakers and intentionally obstructing duly sworn law enforcement officers from the commission of their duties. Are you prepared to defend this widespread immorality? Or do you consider the above to be moral acts?

How do you know what I expect?

Why do I have to keep reminding you that I am not the topic of this thread?

 

Why do I have to keep reminding you that I am not the topic of this thread? Getting frustrated with my superior fact-based arguments, eh?

Getting frustrated with my superior fact-based arguments, eh? Maybe this will make you feel better...


It's a Unicat... a cross between a unicorn and a kitten. Enjoy.

 

You are a strict constructivist when convenient, eh? The law is the law, yes? No matter what the consequences? Lawyers are excellent at making laws about things that they have no experience with.
When I mention "moral compass", it has nothing to do with employers hiring practices, etc. It has to do with compassion and empathy for those who have much less than us. The law is what a judge interprets it to be, and not what you flap about.
How do I know what you expect? I do not. I do know what you don't expect, and that is to be caught.
We have immigration laws and we do not have a dictatorship like China, yet. This country is made by immigrants.
Do I like what I see? Of course not. Do I want infants separated from their mothers? Of course not--moral compass.
You are not the topic of this thread, but I am surprised with your attitude, one-sidedness and I would like to know what type of person that I am conversing with. Maybe a high school drop-out?

 

I am frustrated with your cluelessness, lack of common sense, compassion, moral compass just like your liar and con-man in chief.

 

I am not the topic of this thread. And I think you meant constructionist.

I've already invited you to start a thread about the morality of our immigration laws if you feel they are unjust.

Relevance?

I see, so your moral outrage is selective.

I think I need to remind you again that the name of this forum is Political Opinions and Beliefs. We share our opinions here. I flap. You flap. We all flap. Regarding your appeal to authority fallacy above, however, I'd advise trying to avoid logical fallacies as they only weaken your "argument," such as it is.

Perhaps you could translate this word salad for me and tell what the heck you're trying to say?? And then would be even better if you could illustrate the relevance to the topic.

Perhaps you misunderstood my point. And I apologize for the analogy, but I was using China (and Canada) as examples of other countries with immigration policies. As it turns out, controlled ingress and egress across international borders is the normative state of affairs the world over. Can you name a country that doesn't control its borders? I don't think you can. Regardless of a nation's form of government, the concept of a border is universal. Everyone understands what it means to cross an international border. And every country is free to set its own policy WRT same. Why do you feel the United States should not have this right? How is it immoral as you claim?

Of course it is. Unless you are a Native American, you are an immigrant or the offspring of immigrants. What's your point?

I know a way to absolutely guarantee that infants and mothers will not be separated by U.S. immigration officials. Wanna take a stab at that one?

Not sure what you're trying to say here. But you keep trying to make me the topic of this thread with multiple ad hominem fallacies -- often in the same post. As with your appeal to authority as referenced above, I'd advise you to avoid the ad hominem, for it too betrays the weakness of your "argument," such as it is.

And yet another fallacy. The "type of person" I may or may not be is irrelevant to the veracity of the facts I have presented in my argument.

LOL. I can tell I'm really getting to you! Again, your pallid insults and childish behavior in this thread only diminish the facile emotional appeals you are tying to disguise as an argument.

 

I am not the topic of this thread.

But I'll play along. If you are going to make an allegation, you should be able to defend it. You leveled several unsubstantiated charges above. Please cite examples of my...

1. cluelessness;
2. lack of common sense;
3. compassion;
4. moral compass.

Thank you.

Please clarify.

 

You can't really ask the OP question without answering the questions about undocumented aliens.

That population is between 12 and 20 million human beings.

We can't afford to have that many human beings without access to healthcare.

And, our system is designed to be fabulously expensivee - meaning that population doesn't really have a shot at paying its way in oour system.

Today, ER's serve the most expensive healthcare we have to anyone who shows up. We pay for that through hospitals adding to the cost of all treatment and by our taxes.

So, we have a solution!! It's just super expensiive and poorly diistributed.

 

Question for "Medicare for all" supporters... Does that include illegal aliens?

Well I asked my left-wing-liberal-socialist-democratic "friend" and he said YES!. He said it should include all aliens, even the ones from outer space. He said anyone from anywhere in the universe should be able to come to the US for health care. He added "why do you think some people refer to it as 'universal' health care?" As I walked away he mumbled something about Bill and Warren paying for it.

 

Or! Or! We get rid of the illegals and voila! Problem solved!

 

constructionist--correct spelling.
bye bye

 

Too much for ya, eh? Good idea to tuck your tail and run away. Save yourself any further embarrassment.

 

Absurd. Who says they haven't obeyed the law? I mean, like in everything, some have, some have not. But you obviously don't know what you're talking about.