Religion is concrete, while agnosticism/atheism is abstract

Please, we can do without the childish insults. It's very obvious that I'm
well schooled and knowledgeable about the Bible.

I've skewed nothing. If man had written the Bible then it would contradict itself.

And you have the audacity to say I skewed something? What are you talking
about?

Jesus has always been the Word of God. See John 1:1.

There are no holes in my point of view.

 

Perhaps then that is why so many people claim that there are contradictions in the 'Bible'... because it was written by man (men) and their individual versions of the same event do not appear in accord with one another.

Yes! I have the audacity to say that you have skewed the message of the scripture. My point in referencing that particular passage in Revelation is to show you that the person being spoken of in that passage bears the name "the Word of God". I should also point out to you that the passage "Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Later in that same book the Word became flesh. Notice in that passage from John that the use of the term "Word" is capitalized. "word" in the middle of the sentence is not normally capitalized. So, I ask you again. In that passage in Revelation 19:13, who is the person that is bearing the name "the Word of God"?

So, if you are knowing that Jesus is the Word of God, then why do you suggest that the 'Bible' is the Word of God? Is Jesus the 'Bible'? Did Jesus write the books of the Gospel?

That is still in debate.

 

I gave it to you. You're trying to make the recent find of the Hittites to be
the only existence of them. You're doing the same with the Chaldeans.

LOL! You didn't even read your citations!
Bury puts the Hittites with Abraham.

Ceram was a pro Third Reich propagandist. At least do some research before
making outlandish claims.

There is no contradiction except that the Bible contradicts you.

Corrction, you missed the NECESSARY journey to Egypt. In fact you're
missing most of the Bible because of your stories that can't be confirmed.

Again you provide no evidence to support your limited and extremely lacking
knowledge of the Bible and history.

Yes I do. You can't provide evidence that he didn't. That's good enough
for me.

Just because it contradicts you doesn't make it a contradiction in the Bible.

There's no contradiction here. Good grief, you really need to check out things before
you make claims you can't support.

 

It's very much true. Mohammad wrote the Qur'an and other writings by himself. He
plagiarized the Bible and created allah.

 

Yes, I'm very capable of comprehending what I read. That's how I debunked
everything you've provided and provided sources.

You've yet to provide one contradiction that can't be debunk. If you can then
put it up. Those you copied and pasted from websites were shown to be a total fail.

Seriously, put up a real contradiction. I'll show you that it isn't. Just like the others.

 

Debunked with bull(*)(*)(*)(*) apologetics. But lets just ignore Gen 1 and Gen 2 contradictions.

 

Are you asserting that God actually popped in, grabbed a pen, sat down at a desk for a couple days, and started writing it all down?

 

This is irrelevant. God's word is true. There are very few "translations" that
aren't compatitle.

Jesus.

I'd also like to remind you that the Book is called THE REVELATION OF JESUS.
John wrote what he was told to say.

The Bible is the word of God. What Jesus says is the Bible.

Yes he wrote the Gospels through the authors. I can't make it any more clear than that.

- - - Updated - - -

They were debunked, too.

Please, put up some specific contradictions. Give us your best shot.

 

Then to put us all on the same playground and not suffer disputations as to what is 'compatible', perhaps you can provide us with a listing of those translations that are not compatible. Will you be so kind as to accommodate us with that list?

Well, in the KJV (super giant edition -- I use that version due to my poor vision and its large print), that edition on the title page of the book is printed "the Revelation to John (The Apocalypse) . Then as we read on into verse 1 we have this:
"Rev 1:1 ¶The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

So it can be seen by the above that the actual title of the book does not mention Jesus, rather that notion is found in the 1st verse. In that first verse, we find the the Revelation was actually something that God gave to Jesus and Jesus was instructed to give it to his servants...

The Revelation is only a part of 'the Bible'. And the book of Revelation was not written by Jesus.... as a matter of scripture, the Revelation was not even delivered to John by Jesus, but rather by an angel. So, you still have not shown any PROOF that shows that 'God wrote the Bible' or that "Jesus wrote the Bible". I am still waiting for that proof.

The Gospels were written after the resurrection so you are suggesting that Jesus returned to the Earth and sat down with the 'authors' and took their hand in his and guided their hands as they 'authored' the writing.

I find it difficult to understand why you cannot accept the scripture for what the scripture says.... "All scripture is inspired of God..."

 

Post 273? There are only 137 total posts? Really?

 

The New World Translation, which isn't a translation, immediately comes to mind.
The list is so small I don't know of any others at the moment.

Great, your edition doesn't have it in the title. The first verse says so. Thanks for
bringing that up.

I've provided much evidence. You don't care for it.

You haven't read what I've posted or you wouldn't have made such an incorrect
statement.

Man was the tool that Jesus, God and Holy Spirit used to write the Scripture.

I believe it wholeheartedly.

 

In other words, you cannot substantiate your former claim.

You are quite welcome. That first verse points out that Jesus did not write the 'Bible', nor did 'God', and that neither Jesus nor God, gave to the "authors" what to write... but rather in the case Revelation, it was an angel that gave the words to the "author" of Revelation. You can't have it both ways.

That is a pretty good conclusion to make: However I would have simply expressed it as " I don't accept your evidence as true with regarding to prove your claim." I care for your opinion very much, that is why I challenge you on some of the points you express and then on others, I click that little tab at the bottom of the posting called "like".

I have read all that you have stated in this thread, and that is precisely why I have stated what I have stated. Now, as you have declared my statement to be 'incorrect', then it is time for you to show proof that my statement was incorrect.

So now, you admit that it was man that wrote the scripture and not God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit? Wow... what a change.

Well, if that is what you 'believe' then I am not even going to attempt to ask you for proof of what you 'believe'. If you 'believe' it, then to you that belief is sufficient proof for you, but not necessarily enough for others.

 

http://www.politicalforum.com/religion-philosophy/425786-44-reasons-creationists-deceptive-28.html

I failed to provide a link.

 

The Bible is not evidence, feelings and visions are not evidence, miracles to date are not evidence (people heal and medicine being used on them negates the miracle part unless you have clear accounts of an arm regrowing). So you have no evidence here sir.

And since there are no originals of the books of the Bible its just not a sound reference, now is it? And by originals I mean the first text written or whatever by the author and maintained for any of the books.

 

I had my previous post deleted, so I'll try again.

The Hittites existed according to History. There is no reference to them before the times I stated. They did not arrive in Anatolia until long after Abraham. They did not occupy the land of Palestine either when Abraham was there, or after. The extent of their Empire was to Syria. That is History.
The Chaldeans were part of the Babylonean Empire, 1000 years later than Abraham. That is history. These facts are verifiable by ancient documents, ancient steles and ancient peace treaties as I have mentioned. If you wish to change History to your version that is up to you.

As I said before, the books I quoted were to be proof of the Hittites existence. I didn't mention the contents.

I repeat what I said about the two authors you scoffed at. They, at least, accepted the Hittites.

Would you please tell me why Mary and Joseph travelled 100 miles north to Nazareth, then did an about turn and travelled back through/near Bethlehem when soldiers were seeking every child under 2. They could have gone 20 miles west into Syria where Gaius Caesar was in charge, and been as safe as in Egypt.

All my knowledge is readily available in books and on the internet, if you care to study.

Hosea 1 CLEARLY refers to Israel, and if you read the whole chapter through there is no doubt. You simply take verses out of context and that does not work.

But I supported my claim. You just don't want to accept what the passage says

 

There isn't a question to me on this page.

 

Not true. The Bible is evidence and NOT feelings. Unless you can provide clear
evidence to the contrary please do so. All you've provided is your opinion and
especially on the medical front.

There don't need to be original books to be a sound reference. How many originals of
Plato's Republic exist?

The Bible is accurate which is why there are no contradictions whatsoever. It's the
most accurately retained book ever.

 

You didn't read your sources. Bury put Abraham and the Hittites in the same
period.

You've yet to provide sources that support your claims, and as usual, you
won't provide links after you've spent all that time Googling.

 

Dan. 11:36 And the king, (the governor of Syria, MUAWIYA I, a Sunni who came to power after the murder of Ali), shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, (deny Trinity: Rev 3:12), and shall prosper till the indignation (of Arabian Empire) be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

(Muawiya inaugurated an almost 90-year rule by the UMAYYADS (661-750), who made Damascus their capital).

Dan. 11:37 Neither shall he, (the governor of Syria, MUAWIYA I, a Sunni who came to power after the murder of Ali), regard the God of his fathers, (Ishmeal and his twelve sons), nor the desire of women (whom he will supress), nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

 

God said Elijah would return,... hence repeat the miracles once more:

1) Both Elijah and Christ raised the dead:

1 Kings 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.

John 12:1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where .Lazarus was, which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.

2) Both Elijah, who never dies, and Christ were immortal:

2 Kings 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal

John 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

3) Both Elijah and Christ ascended into Heaven before witnesses:

2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
12 And Elisha saw it,

Luke 24:.51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven

4) Both Elijah and Christ troubled Israel:

1 Kings 18:17 And it came to pass, when Ahab saw Elijah that Ahab said unto him, Art thou he that troubleth Israel?

Matthew 2:3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.

5) Both Elijah and Christ were threatened by the authorities with death:

1 Kings 19:14.. And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only am left; and they seek my life, to take it away

John 11:53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death

6) Both Elijah and Christ.... were hunted by the Jewish authorities:

1 Kings 19:14 And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away

Then said some of them of Jerusalem, Is not this he, whom they seek to kill?

7) Both Elijah and Christ.... hid in a cave/tomb:

1 Kings 19:9 And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?

Luke 2:14 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.

Both Elijah and Christ pondered in the wilderness 40 days and forty nights:....

1 Kings 19:8 And he arose, and did eat and drink, and went in the strength of that meat forty days and forty nights unto Horeb the mount of God

Matthew 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

9) Both Elijah and Christ. walked on across the water

2 Kings 2:8.. And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground

Matthew 14:25 And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea\

10) Both Elijah and Christ let a person follow them across the water:

2 Kings 2:14.. And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the LORD God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over

Matthew 14:29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water to go to Jesus.

11) Both Elijah and Christ.... wrote only one thing, a letter, to people on Earth AFTER they had ascended:

2 Chronicles 21:12 And there came a writing to him from ..Elijah.. the prophet, saying, Thus saith the LORD God of David thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat thy father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah,\

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

12) Both Elijah and Christ appointed a successor, Elisha, by Elijah, and Peter, by Christ:\
2 Kings 2:9.. And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And ..Elisha.. said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me
Matthew 16:18.. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this .rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

13) Both Elijah and Christ gave a successor the power to raise the dead:
2 Kings 8:5.. And it came to pass, as he was telling the king how he had restored a dead body to life, that, behold, the woman, whose son he had restored to life, cried to the king for her house and for her land. And Gehazi said, My lord, O king, this is the woman, and this is her son, whom ..Elisha.. restored to life.
Acts 9:40 But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed.; and turning him to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up.

14) Both Elijah and Christ gave a successor the power to heal:

2 Kings 5:10.. And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean

Acts 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk

15) Both Elijah and Christ gave a successor a symbolic authority, the cloak to one, the keys to the other:

1 Kings 19:19.. So he departed thence, and found Elisha the son of Shaphat, who was plowing with twelve yoke of oxen before him, and he with the twelfth: and Elijah passed by him, and cast his mantle upon him.

Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven

16) Both Elijah and Christ asked that the this "cup" be taken from them:

1Kings 19:4 .But he himself went a day's journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a juniper tree: and he requested for himself that he might die (because he was afraid of what was coming from Jezebel: [1Kings 19:3]), and said, "It is enough (they seek my life, to take it away: [1Kings 19:10]); now, O LORD, take away my life; for I am not better than my fathers."

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, (because he began to show grief and distress of mind and was deeply depressed: [Matt 26:37]), let this cup pass from me (It is enough: [1Kings 19:4]): nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

17) Both Elijah and Christ had miraculous births:

Jewish Encyclopedia:
Three different theories regarding Elijah's origin are presented in the Haggadah: Mention must be made of a statement which, though found only in the later cabalistic literature (Yal?u? Reubeni, Bere(*)(*)(*)(*), 9a, ed. Amsterdam), seems nevertheless to be very old (see Epiphanius, l.c.), and according to which Elijah was an angel in human form, so that he had neither parents nor offspring.
See also Melchizedek.

Matthew1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

1 Both Elijah and Christ destroyed pagan worshippers and priests. Elijah destroyed the priests of Baal; Christ, the Pantheon of Rome, 380AD:

IKi 18:40 And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there.

History: Universal Christianity in 380AD:
Revelation 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.
They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years (32AD -1054AD)\

19) Both Elijah and Christ were promised faithfulness three times, Elisha in the former and Peter, in the latter.\

2 Kings 2:2.. I will not leave thee. So they went down to Bethel
2 Kings 2:4.. I will not leave thee. So they came to Jericho
2 Kings 2:6.. I will not leave thee. And they two went on

John 21:17.. He saith unto him the third time,... "Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, "Lovest thou me?"

20) Both Elijah and Christ. condemned a Jezebel:

2 Kings 9:36 Wherefore they came again, and told him. And he said, This is the word of the LORD, which he spake by his servant Elijah the Tishbite, saying, In the portion of Jezreel shall dogs eat the flesh of Jezebel:

Rev 2:20 ..Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds...

21) Both Elijah and Christ re-dedicated the Israelite people to God by raising up a new altar or temple:

1 Ki 18:30 And ..Elijah.. said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the LORD that was broken down. And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name:

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.

22) Both Elijah and Christ chose one man upon which to build his following:

2 Kings 2:15 And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and ..upon.. this ..rock.. I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

23) Both Elijah and Christ were subject of a three day 'search' for their presence:

2 Kings 2:1 And when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, Send.
They sent therefore fifty men; and they sought three days, but found him not.

Luke 2:46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.

 

Both would be wrong then.
Both say their God had no son.

But Christ said, "I am the Truth"...
Truth has a father in the ever unfolding Reality which give birth to the Truth, itself.

 

Which is an easy way out.

 

None of those are even slightly relevant to the discussion. Trying to duck the issue with masses of irrelevant Bible quotes only exposes the intellectual bankrup nature of your position.

 

What does this have to do with my post?

 

I don't want an easy way out. Give me the so-called contradiction. Or
maybe this is your easy way out because you know it isn't a contradiction.