Religion is Silly Fairy Tales

Similarly, if you choose to be consumed by your life, such that the lesser part, the finery of spirit is not given harbor to the enlargement of your soul, that's your prerogative. But the life you love does end in the unbreakable shackle of death as an inheritance. With God, it is not so much a life not lived. But rather one in gratitude, with an eye single to the honor and glory of our maker and of storing our treasures in heaven rather than consuming it on our own lusts. To be honest, one cannot do a single good thing without loving God and being a practitioner of Godliness to a degree, storing treasures in heaven. To apologize to another for a wrong done. To forgive a wrong done. To blink ones eyes to anothers imperfection or shortcoming and thereby clothe another in charity. To let a driver out in traffic, hold open a door for another, be kind to a child, to respect, be patient, to love silently at a distance another, to ache for another and want the more to give to that one is a plea to heaven. We are all the offspring of the same God. But for all the good we do, there is the other part, the evil we harbor, the envy, selfishness, covetousness, lust, hate, cruelty and unforgiveness, etc. If we are to love God with all our heart, mind and strength, then this part remains unaddressed and is our Gods rightful concern as we are his offspring. To say this is mythical, foolish, or a fable, is to minimize the very good of ourselves and ignore the call of reason. Yes God remains at a great distance in proclamation, yet near in whisper and spirit in our souls. It may seem apparent that we are good because we are good and there is no God. But reason suggests otherwise. If we are blessed or spirited unto joy, then is it not right to turn about and give thanks in sober consideration for the hand that fills our cups as we dash to life and hope and all of this life's wondrousness. How is it in error to keep in remembrance our perfect Father? We keep the words of our Parents and remember our long gone hero's. We do not build our ships of wormwood, nor our dwellings on shaky ground. So it is so odd to remember the rock from which we are hewn.

 

I'm fine with religion or non-religion. That is as long as the religious don't try to force their religion on me and others or the non-religious try to force no religion on me and others. To each his own.

 

That's fine. But my statement was factual, not religious. You do realize that the concept that there is one God from whom we all spring is the essence of American liberty and our equality therein. So the God you fear is at the base of American freedom. Our Constitution prohibits Congress from meddling in or establishing any particular religion. But it does not prohibit or erase the self evidence of God as the source and foundation of our nations birth and our peoples liberty. It is the very cause, motivation and justification for the rightness of our separation from England. The last sentence of the Declaration of Independence reads:
“And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.”
In Thanksgiving day proclamations, both George Washington and Abraham Lincoln praised and thanked God for our liberty and blessings. So contrary to the notion that talk of God is unAmerican and unwarranted, to honor God is completely American and appropriate. Consequently, if you should fear anything, it should be in the forgetting and abolishing of any remembrance of God and divine intercession in the affairs of our nation and people. Otherwise we cease to be equal, and become mere obstacles in one another's way.

 

Sure. There is no chance of empirical evidence of the God described in the Bible.

The Bible states flat out that the God described must be accepted on faith alone.

From another angle, humans testing a god is not a rational concept.

I think asking for proof of something for which it is well known that there is no proof is either an attack or a fundamental lack of understanding.

 

So why would anyone care what the Bible states anymore than they should care what the Bhagavad Gita or Lutus Sutra (for example) say?

But if you want to discuss the Bible, it claims God put in personal appearances in the past. When and why did he stop showing up?

BTW, believing in the supernatural without good evidence is not rational.

 

The use of "god" in our declaration of independence was a turn of phrase meaning that the specific characteristics are inherently human - fundamental requirements.

The fact that many of our founders had some belief in God, somewhat like the God Christians believe in today, is totally irrelevant, obviously.

I don't see any concept of God being fundamental to our constitution. And, our rights depend on the constitution, NOT on any other writing.

Our form of government has come from a long history of western advances in governance. Perhaps the most important of those was removing religion from government. And, that was seen as seriously important by our founders. After all, the problem of the mixture of government and religion was a STUPENDOUSLY bad experience for those who left England in search of religious freedom.

You can believe what you want, but we are governed by a constitution and NOT some religious notion that any of the world's thousands of religions might promote. And, you can read about that in the first amendment.

 

You and I can agree on most of this, but it doesn't really mater. It's not like we're going to kill religious belief in the existence of some sort of god. In my opinion, trying to do that is counterproductive at the very best.

Far better that we recognize that the Bible is full of statements by Jesus and others in support of pretty much every objective the left wing has an interest. If Jesus were alive today, he would be preaching something very close to the Democratic platform. The philosophy laid out in the Bible is not some sort of problem.

 

Sorry but being created equal and endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights as a self evident truth is a pretty clear indication they weren't referring to the generic mankind, but rather two distinct things, God and man. And then appealing to divine providence for support and protection is likewise a bolster to the concept. And that the very first amendment to the Constitution is another proof that Congress shall not intercede in our chosen mode of worship. In other words, to me, they were saying we know there is a God, so that makes us equal, it is also why we are separating from the religious direction of England. But we don't know which religion or path to take to this God. So we leave it to the people themselves to find God in their own time, place, season and choosing as stipulated in the first amendment. So they knew God was real, but they had no authority from God to dictate his purposes. So they left that matter to each individual to determine for themselves. God is all thruout our nations founding and birth. Not any particular religion but rather a supreme and glorious being. Our founding Fathers sensed it and knew it. They wrote it into our founding documents and proclamations of thanksgiving. It is wholly American to honor and thank God for our nation and liberty.

 

I see NO evidence of that. Reference to God was a great turn of phrase to indicate that the principles are immutable, especially when the document was aimed at an England that was uniformly Christian.

I'm certainly not opposed to you thanking your god in the way you choose.

But, there is a line between religion and state. Religion is NOT a justification for laws that congress might pass. If you want to write a law, you have to justify it without reference to your religion.

 

That's not a choice. Everyone is consumed by their lives, it's all every living being has. I was talking about being consumed by religion/mythology.

No sh!t Sherlock, thanks for the education.

I won't bother with the rest of your long winded post, you bought the god myth, I didn't. With or without a god, it's still life ending in death. There are no exceptions.

 

No, everyone is not consumed by life. Only people like you. And God is not a myth. He is real and he lives. To say there is no God is the myth. So you are consumed by myth. Worse is that you proclaim what you don't know. Which makes it a lie. You are well aware that you don't know whether or not God is real. But to extrapolate that to mean there is no God is to double down on ignorance and deepen your hole for the sake of transitory bliss. Believe what you will. But belief in and of itself is not the same as knowing. Which is another "DUH" concept of which you are well aware, yet leisurely dismiss for the sake of proffering BS as a rallying standard for your fellows, and as a hole to entrap the unsuspecting. The point isn't whether or not we die. But in whether or nor we do so while in solidarity and friendship with our maker, whose grace is the promise of an inheritance in eternal life.

 

Yes how do you do, I'm a human being just like you and just like every living creature no matter what species. We (including you) are all consumed by life from the very first breath until the very last breath. It doesn't matter how deeply you're consumed by your beliefs, you can believe it or pretend it's not true all you want, it does not change that fact either way.

That would be like saying that if one believes there's no Santa Claus or Tooth Fairy that is the myth and I'm consumed by the belief there's no Santa or Tooth Fairy. That makes no sense at all. The mythical "god" is man's invention, but you are certainly free to let YOUR indoctrinated fantasy consume you as long as your beliefs don't infringe on anyone else's rights. In any case whether I take the position that the mythical god being is reality or not, what difference does it make? The outcome is still the same for both believers and non believers, life then death and if there is some kind of afterlife, then there is an afterlife either way. So I have real life day to day issues to deal with, I don't need to spend my life being consumed by fairy tales. You apparently do but that's your prerogative.

 

I respect your belief, but reject your proclamation. To say there is no God is like the blind man who says that because I cannot see it, therefore there is nothing to be seen. It is true for him but not for the sighted. So he retreats into his blindness and indulges his other senses, bedazzled by the fullness of life and all its challenges. But even the blind take our word for it that there are things he cannot see, like the moon, stars, the endless space, the vistas and golden play of light, the birds in flight, etc. The only way that you can justly say there is no God is either to know all that there is to know, effectively being God. Or the non existent God told you personally that he does not exist. Which is another mutually exclusive concept. Your belief is not a universal truth. I know that God lives. You don't know it. That is the truth.

 

Asserting that there is no God is not the same thing as saying one does not believe in God.

If someone asserts there is a God, the onus is on them to provide evidence of their claim. Of course no one ever provides this evidence. Rather, like you, they claim to just "know". Of course the knowing always seems to correspond to some indoctrination by a church or cult.

Funny how people claim to converse with a God, Holly Spirit, etc. yet this God never reveals any knowledge of say a cure for cancer.

 

personally, I don’t really think god is there to provide answers like that for us. We exist so that god/creation can experience itself. It does that through the infinite journeys of all the different souls in existence, which are really just parts of god that he veils so that they have no knowledge that they are god. It is the slow process of realization that they are god across many lifetimes that makes this happen. Things like cancer are things that a soul agrees to inflict upon itself, to learn some sort of lesson in this incarnation. Ib the next life the soul may choose to be incredibly rich, famous, and healthy. In the next he may choose to be a slave. And in the next choose to be a master of slaves. In one incarnation he may choose to cure cancer, when all the other souls agree that cancer no longer is a useful tool for development of the soul. Things like war and peace, love and hate, provide similar opportunities for spiritual development.

eventually, across many lifetimes the soul has learned enough that the veil between it and god is removed, and it realizes that it was just god all along, experiencing itself, and god is all that has ever really existed. Then it starts all over again.

 

Injeun - I know the tooth fairy exists - put my tooth underneath pillow and in the morning found coins. The Fairy in this case was my mommy - but I didn't know that at the time.

We have no "evidence" for the existence of God from the Bible on this basis. What we do have are many examples of people attributing seemingly supernatural things to God - and some not so supernatural things to God. Winning a battle being just one example.

Jet - asking for evidence for God - in context - is like asking for evidence that the moon around some distant planet orbiting the North Star is not made of green cheese.

That said - I will present case for God .. and give evidence .. real evidence

The first thing need to be done is to define "God"

My definition is as follows: Humans have the ability to manifest their will into physical reality - but only within the confines of one's body.
Having the ability to manifest one's will into physical reality outside one's body - would be to have "God-like" powers.

Fact: At some point - Matter/Energy came together in some combination that gained knowledge of its own existence.
Proof: I think therefor I am .. you exist - and are made of matter and energy (M/E)

One of big conundrums is how that awareness managed to manifest itself into physical reality - but we know this happened as well.
Proof- look down at pinky finger on left hand .. wiggle it .. congrats .. you just manifested a thought into physical reality.

Now tell me how you did it ? - You can't of course .. it just happens .. you think "pinky move" and it does. This is the biggest mystery of existence.

In any case .. you have this power. What you don't have is the power to move a chair through force of will .. but were someone to come to you from the Sky - tell you to make some tea - then sit and tell you they were a God - and as evidence make a few chairs move around .. you would most likely believe them would you not ?

but if that didn't work .. and you wanted more proof .. the entity then telling you they have the ability to manipulate matter and energy through force of will .. and then making storms appear .. and all kinds of other things .. certainly you would be convinced.

The ability to manipulate matter and energy through force of will is how I have defined "God" or at least God- like powers.

Does such an entity exist ? We see in nature entities with varying degrees of "willpower" - a tree can be said to be aware - and have the ability to heal itself .. but a tree is not able to manifest that will like a human .. Perhaps a rock is also aware .. just on a very low low level - who knows.

On the other end of the scale we have the human .. with a fairly good capacity to manifest will .. but still only within confines of their body.

We see matter and energy being manipulated all around us .. who or what is controlling these manipulations is unknown .. not attached to some Body that we know of - directing and controling things , but something is directing and controling things .. we refer to that something as the physical forces of the universe... but like the tooth fairy - this is just a guess. We know the forces exist -(the coins arrived) but we don't know where they come from .. and there are new forces being discovered.. in our attempt to find such answers to this vexing question.

As we try to answer these questions - things get wierder and wierder - I have studied quantum at an academic level 2cnd year chemistry but then took a 4th year class solely on the topic "Quantum Chemistry" - with the text of the same name .. going over all the founding fathers .. Einstein, Openheimer .. doing the shrodinger wave equations .. yada yada.

Things that shouldn't happen - happen - "As if" something is controlling things .. but like the tooth fairy .. we don't know how the event happened.

When I look up into the sky on a clear night away from the city lights .. the universe looks much like a big brain .. Interstingly - this big brain is not going to meet our definition of being able to manipulate M/E through force of will outside its body .. but it doesn't have to .. because the Universe is its body

Thus ends my proof .. if it looks like a duck (big brain) - acts like a duck (energy-matter being manipulated all around us) - perhaps it is a duck !

 

It was the OP who made the declaration that there is no God and that to profess contrary to his declaration is to believe in a fable. So it is up to him to prove his point. The difference between he and I is that he knows he isn't really sure. While I know that not only I am sure, but I also know that he doesn't know for certain of what he proclaims. It is simply his belief and conclusion. While I neither believe nor conclude that God lives. I know he is real and lives. The OP believes while I know. Therefore his is the man made fable, a false declaration to which I feel compelled to respond. I know his place and my place. He knows neither one. I have broken his standard of belief and replaced it with a standard of certainty which cannot be broken. Unless a man knows all there is to know, it is impossible to know or say there is no God. Whereas all a man need to know that God lives is to know that he does, or for God to say to that man, here am I. And for that man to recognize him in astonishment.

 

I think "pinky move" and the motor cortex in the brain sends an impulse via a motor nerve. When the impulse reaches a muscle, Acetylcholine is released and makes muscles contract via acetylcholine receptors. The brain is an amazing thing. But it is not supernatural.

A god is supernatural. Big difference. Why do you think our Universe is controlled? Saying the Universe looks like a brain, therefore is God, is pseudo science. A Rorschach ink blot looks like a lot of things -- but it is still an ink blot.

If you want to allude to science to prove God , then provide empirical evidence. Do this, and you will win a Nobel prize.

BTW, language manipulation is not proof of anything. If you want to equate the physical laws of the Universe to a God, why do this? Why not simply call the physical laws of the universe, the physical laws of the universe?

 

You missed it mate .. Chemist here - I know chemical electrical dynamics but how did the first thought manage to do it when the machinery was not yet in place.

Or are you proposing that the connections and "awareness" came at the same time - I get that you have not thought this far but -- this is where it leads.

While we can not completely discount this .. if the odds of matter and energy coming together to gain knowledge of one's existence are ridiculously absurd ( as we are now speaking from the random perspective - no invisible hand in the cards) the odds of these two things happening concurrently ridiculous to the power of ridiculous.

We have a configuration of matter and energy that can think called computers .. perhaps one day self aware .. but it will not be able to make a thought move one of its components.

You are describing how things work now .. not now the machinery came to be .. but there is no "Machinery" all you have is a thought.. and somehow .. that thought triggers a physical manifestation.

How did the thought learn to do this ? Its a thought mate .. What you are saying similar to claiming to have figured out Gravity ..

Sure we see how it works .. but we don't know how .. there are no strings pulling things to the ground .. warp in the spacetime continuum serves as the best explanation .. this is only a similar analogy in this way . .. in our case we have no theory of how this connection came to be made ..

and what is this nonsense about empiracle evidence .. I gave you empiracle evidence - Just because there is no smoking gun that can be proven .. does not mean evidence does not exist.

Think you got lost as soon as you missed the distinction between a thought and physical reality ..

Then you ask "Why do you think the universe is controlled" .. although this was explained - there are rules that the universe follows - gravity being one of them .. conservation of mass another .. and some rules we are just discovering.

These rules control the universe .. if you don't believe me - Jump off your sidewalk and try to continue to go up instead of coming down .. There is your "Empiracal evidence"

 

Rules are properties of the universe. Not evidence of a controller controlling the universe. Jumping up and coming down is evidence of gravity. Not a supernatural God. You have presented zero empirical evidence for a God. If we don't know how gravity works, claiming God does it is an argument from ignorance. Like I said. If you can present this evidence you will be a Nobel prize winner. The operation of the brain is not supernatural. If you want an explanation of how brains developed, and how brains developed to signal muscles to move, the answer provided by science is evolution, i.e., DNA mutation and natural selection. Science does not have the answer for everything, and probably never will. But that does not justify an argument from ignorance claim that we don't know, therefore, God.

If you cannot demonstrate a basis for odds as stated below, you are make an argument from incredulity, i.e., a fallacy. "the odds of matter and energy coming together to gain knowledge of one's existence are ridiculously absurd" -- perhaps both an argument from incredulity and an argument from ignorance.

Thoughts are the result of a physical reality. If you brain is damaged or destroyed, thinking will become limited or non-existent.

 

Thoughts are created by the ego, the body, yes. But consciousness goes beyond your body. Thats why when we meditate, we observe our thoughts. We do not identify with them, just acknowledge them, and understand that those thoughts do not come from the "I", but from the ego. It can be difficult to separate the two without practice. The mind, the ego, loves to just chatter away.

 

My evidence is personal from God and has nothing to do with scriptures or what anyone rehearsed to me.

 

Mine too .. but, that has little bearing on the issue .. your personal experience didn't tell you which version of the Bible, Quran, or other religious texts are the right ones.

 

I don’t think there is a right one. Or, more precisely, they are all right. God has visited all cultures in some form, and all religions hold messages that are compatible with that culture. Spirituality should be a very personal thing, and there is no universal “right” way to commune with god. That being said, it is very easy for man to hijack religion for power and control. All the more reason to keep spirituality very personal, and not organized into large powerful institutions.

 

Yes .. that is certainly one way of looking at it - one that makes sense regardless of which religion one prefers personally. As soon as you start doing the my way or the hiway thing - you end up putting God in a box - and God should be bigger than the box.. specialy some of those nasty boxes YHWH and others get put into .. all dem dirty deeds the literalist does not like to discuss.