Ron DeSantis accused of making racist slur about Andrew Gillum

I don't need to. Im not trying to convince you. His words have convinced enough.

 

Again, his subjective truth is that racism exists against blacks because he is black and has experienced it. For him, that is a pressing matter because it has effected him on a personal level.

I don't understand why your feelings are so hurt about this.

Not mentioning the other racist elements of our nation and daily experience doesn't discredit his claims.

What difference does it make? You're claiming a position of authority here and it's absurd.

When is the last time you've ever mentioned racism against blacks without also mentioning liberals and race cards in the same sentence?

 

It was a perfectly innocuous use of the word. The ONLY reason it is even an issue is because certain people automatically associate monkeys and blacks and projected that on Desantis.

 

Again, you're -willingly choosing- to apply mislogic here and skew what he said, or rather, what he left unsaid.

Racism exists against blacks in this country.

That is an objective truth that is not dismissed because he didn't mention racism against whites in the same sentence.

 

I didn't respond to the the exact content of your post because I wanted to go furthur. I want our country to move past the place we are at.

I think that we waste too much energy on this sort of "controversy". I think it senselessly distracts us from growing as a nation. I think that that Desantis guy made a clumsy statement and the classless politicians jumped on it so that they could use it as a weapon against him.

Do I think he's a racist? Do I think that he was sending a message to all those millions of racists in Florida? No. I think the idea is ridiculous.

I think that if someone has to guard against every word that he says, lest it be used to destroy him, it's just wrong.

I think it's time for the Gillums of the world, the "black" public figures, to just say: "I'm not playing that game".

 

How do we get there without addressing the issues of today? You said racism was over, but for who? A DOJ report showed abuse of minority and blacks on behalf of the Baltimore PD. Republicans from North Carolina were ruled by the supreme court to have gerrymandered districts with the intent of suppressing black votes. So while you're running past these issues affecting people today on your way to some fantastic future the rest of us, especially those of us who are black have to live in this reality.

Well that's like your opinion man. I think we spend to much time on this nonsense too even though I think DeSantis was definitely dog whistling to his racist supporters.

Gillum and millions of his supporters, me included don't agree with you.

 

"How do we get there without addressing the issues of today? You said racism was over, but for who? A DOJ report showed abuse of minority and blacks on behalf of the Baltimore PD."

I think that the country has many problems, that can be solved. Calling something "racist" does not lead to solutions. It only perpetuates hate. We would do better to address the problems with our society, which keep people stuck in lives of hopelessness.

"Republicans from North Carolina were ruled by the supreme court to have gerrymandered districts with the intent of suppressing black votes."

I don't know anything about this, but I'll accept your assertion.

What makes it "racist"?

Are you sure that they weren't just drawing districts to their advantage? A lot of districts are drawn with results in mind, rather than their sense of community. I don't agree with or support that, but it exists. Some people want to call it "racist", but that is their interpretation. It's about votes, not skin color.

Votes don't have colors. Votes are either "R", or "D".

If you take your theory to its logical conclusion, you would have to believe that Republicans would refuse votes from "black" people because of their skin color.

"So while you're running past these issues affecting people today on your way to some fantastic future the rest of us,"

I just don't see how running around, pointing fingers, and yelling "RACIST!" at every opportunity will bring people closer together. I just see it as being more hate.

"especially those of us who are black have to live in this reality."

None of us can be someone else. We all have our individual experiences. We can't be expected to have learned the same lessons from our individual experiences. I think that we should respect another's experiences and, at the same time, not hold our experiences against someone else. I am very careful around female co-workers. It sucks, but I won't risk some nutjob threatening my job. For the same reason, I don't discuss race, religion, or politics. I think it's stupid, but that's the nature of a country where we have to constantly on guard against giving ammunition to sleazebags who will use anything against us.

"I think DeSantis was definitely dog whistling to his racist supporters."

I think it's dumb to think that. The racist voting block just isn't that big.

"Gillum and millions of his supporters, me included don't agree with you."

I'd rather believe that they know it's a bullshit claim. If any significant number of people believe it, my faith in people would be even lower.

 

So I shouldn't speak out against something I think is racist because it might hurts your feelings? How are you going to solve problems of racism if you can't identify them?

You wouldn't characterize a selfish willingness to subvert the franchise of blacks for political gain as racism? Ok. Agree to disagree.

Why not? The south opposed giving blacks those rights just 54 years ago.

Look at the ridiculous way you characterize the conversation while complaining about the degradation of that conversation. No one is running around shouting racist. We identified what appeared to us as racist dog whistles, informed by historical and societal realities, you can disagree but to pretend as if or concern is ridiculous isn't furthering the conversation now is it? So maybe get off your high horse there.

I have to question your sincerity about wanting to learn from others experiences when you describe women wanting to be safe in the workplace as "nutjobs". What does it mean when you say you have to be "careful" around female co-workers? And how "unfortunate" it is?

Funny I've never felt ashamed or scared enough if my own opinions to censor them anywhere, including at work.

Well how big is it? Let's see your numbers.

That's ok. Most people don't care what you think.

 

"So I shouldn't speak out against something I think is racist because it might hurts your feelings? How are you going to solve problems of racism if you can't identify them?"

I don't understand how you read that into my comment. I'm just saying that there are people who keep bringing out these clubs to beat back their political opposition with. I think it damages all of us.

"You wouldn't characterize a selfish willingness to subvert the franchise of blacks for political gain as racism? Ok. Agree to disagree."

Here again, you are misinterpreting my words. I think you would do better to read what I post, without your bias changing my meaning. You know as well as I do that politicians will attempt to rig any system to their advantage. That you want to believe it's because they're black, is your bias. Politicians only care about votes. Cripes, if this happens, it's because of how a neighborhood votes. Not because of the color of their skin.

"Look at the ridiculous way you characterize the conversation while complaining about the degradation of that conversation. No one is running around shouting racist."

WUT??!?

"you can disagree but to pretend as if or concern is ridiculous isn't furthering the conversation now is it? So maybe get off your high horse there."

Well, I'm not pretending. I think this controversy is a bunch of destructive political nonsense. But, maybe there's something to the "high horse" comment. I am just really tired of there being no progress on this subject. I'm really tired of people continuing to feed it.

"I have to question your sincerity about wanting to learn from others experiences when you describe women wanting to be safe in the workplace as "nutjobs". What does it mean when you say you have to be "careful" around female co-workers? And how "unfortunate" it is?"

I have to question your experiences. Have you really never been attacked by the PC police? Does your job not require sensitivity training? You're constantly doing it to me with your word-twisting. Yes, I am forced to be careful around coworkers; in case one of them will twist my words, like you are, and use them against me. I never said that women wanting to be safe were nutjobs. That is you twisting my words. Kinda like calling Desantis a racist.

"Funny I've never felt ashamed or scared enough if my own opinions to censor them anywhere, including at work."

Maybe you have some special privelege...

"Most people don't care what you think."

That is where they go wrong.

 

Ok, I didn't read the whole thread... but... So, if DeSantis saying that we shouldn't allow someone to "monkey up" ... well, now. That's racist is it? Or does that only apply when someone other than a democrat says it? Cause I can recall sooo many times recently when other folks democrats don't like have actually used similar or worse language to describe the current president. So, to me, it looks like we have what we call double standards here.. And if the nice man from FL is so thin skinned that he can't understand he, nor his supporters, get to reinvent the meanings of words and phrases, well too f'in bad. This is the kind of lack luster BS that the plantation depends on. The beauty? it's so obvious these days.

 

Nothing like calling Trump an orange orangutan to prove your lack of racism.

 

Lol...no

 

That includes "based on the belief that one's own race is superior." What does watermelon have to do with that?

 

I actually have no idea. Ask the racists who created the stereotype. Who knows why they thought that was cleaver. Never could figure that one out myself.



Edit: I actually was curious so I looked it up. Apparently newly freed blacks sold watermelons to make money and it became a symbol of their freedom so racists mocked and ridiculed it and here we are today. You know a rope isn't inherently racist either but draped over a tree and we get the message. Pretend you can't see it all you like friend, you just look silly doing it.

 

You wouldn't say that it is racist to say that all black people are friendly would you?

 

Is this another of your long drawn out senseless discussions? You take forever getting to the point asking ridiculous rhetorical questions. Why don't you just get to your point?

 

What? I'm saying literally the EXACT opposite! Or maybe you mean that I was assuming that this is what YOU are saying. And you would be right, but I guess you're not from what you're saying.

I'm saying that he said it without any intent that it would do ANYTHING positive for him. I'm saying that he said it SIMPLY to make it clear that having a socialist agenda would mess/screw things up for Florida. And if you seriously can't see that, then that tells me everything I need to know about your intellect level. Which is odd, because you come across as quite intelligent otherwise.

Have you ever actually heard of people talking about 'monkeying' something up? Isn't that a slightly more likely use of the word than using it in a racist way? Seriously, what is more likely? I'm actually willing to say that it is POSSIBLE that he was using it in a racist way, but just that it is FAR less likely! Your problem is that you want to say that it is 100% confirmed and guaranteed racism!

But you DID answer my question though didn't you? I asked you, "So he always had their vote, right?" And you answered, "right." The post again: http://www.politicalforum.com/index...-andrew-gillum.540670/page-32#post-1069572071

What did you mean then if you didn't mean that he had already secured their vote? Considering that logically, "always had their vote" is equivalent to already secured their vote.

Was he racist before this so called dog whistle? If so, do you have ANY evidence whatsoever?

 

What other "long drawn out senseless discussions" are you referring to exactly? Have I had these with you or something?

Rhetorical? Oh that's where you're wrong! They DEMAND an answer!

Right now my point is trying to determine your line on what is racist. So again, you wouldn't say that it is racist to say that all black people are friendly would you? And try your best to not deflect this time!

 

Yea, I got all that. As I said agree to disagree. You're more than entitled to your own opinion.

What does that even mean? I'm not under some mistaken impression that my opinion is fact. I don't know what you mean when you say that I believe it's 100% confirmed as racist. I too can allow for the small chance DeSantis is just a moron who doesn't know not to use monkey and articulate when talking about your black opponent. And that's what really seals it for me. He didn't just use monkey in a seemingly innocent way he also used articulate and if we're playing racist bingo we're halfway there.

I feel as if I answered this question 9 times already. Why do you ask questions in a way that confuses yourself? Let me be clear hopefully for the last time. I believe DeSantis made these comments to excite his base to get out and vote, his base not being the entire Republican party but the more Trumpian side of it. You can agree or not whether you think racism would appeal to these people, for the sake of my argument let's assume it does. He doesn't need to win over these people (all my comments towards that end where in answer to your own questions) to his ideas but he does need them to actually come out and vote and if you don't understand that yet buddy I can no longer help you.

I assume he's been racist his whole life but I don't have proof. I'm not trying to prove it in a court of law though nor am I even trying to convince you. I'm just giving my opinion on the matter and maybe also laughing at the self own of the DeSantis campaign.

Wasn't it you who asked me a million questions in the thread about the Baker who refused to bake the wedding cake for the gay couple? And then at the end was like, 'well that's reasonable', or something along those lines?
R

I wasn't deflecting it just seems like a dumb question. No it isn't racist, it's biased and bias can have negative or positive connotations. In this case positive. Now they are still wrong and they can be harmful but they aren't intended as slights.

 

I really don't understand why you want to see racism in everything.

 

That much is obvious.

 

That's good. I'm glad that I've been able to make that point clearly.

Can you explain what benefits you get from seeing racism everywhere? Is the quality of your life somehow made better?

 

When you say everywhere do you mean that literally? Do you imagine me taking a dump and reaching for the toilet paper only to see.....RACISM!!!!

Or is it like Superman's x-ray vision. I can turn it on and off? I'm curious.

 

Are you at all willing to have a serious discussion?

I can't help but note the difference in tone between your posts and mine.

"Everywhere" is, maybe, an exaggeration, but you certainly are stretching to find it.

I mean, really? Someone can't say another person is articulate? Because it's racist? WUT??!? That's absurd. That kind of stuff isn't winning me over.

 

Who's trying to "win" you over? If you want to have a serious conversation don't start off by accusing someone of seeing racism everywhere when so far we've discussed one instance. As for your question people can use articulate innocently but it's well known that those comments seem patronizing to black people just as I know the term white privilege irks white people. Now I might not care if it does, but I can't sit here and pretend like I know it doesn't and then act sheepish. Is that what you're pretending? That you don't know blacks find being described as articulate patronizing?