Ron Paul's response to Russian Sanctions

So, you admit that Russia annexed a part of the territory of Ukraine.
Are you aware of the fact that Ukraine sent all of the nuclear weapons it possessed after collapse of the USSR to Russia? Do you know that Russia, the US, the UK and France signed Budapest Memorandum?
If you know of these facts then you must realize that the US sanctions is the smallest thing the US can do to uphold to its part of the promise to keep Ukraine whole and war-free. Every powerful nation tries to have friendly governments in the countries of strategic interest, it’s a known fact, but in the modern world you don’t split up those countries, as it can cause regional consequences. Look at what Russia did and reaction of its neighbors - even Belarus is not happy about it. Poland and Baltic states started to arm themselves and beg NATO to send as much hardware and troops as possible. Militarization and hostility in that region might lead to bad consequences - and Russia is at fault here because it annexed and caused the conflict that everyone, except Russians and conspiracy nuts, understand is a very real Russian-Ukrainian war.

 

1 about Kosovo - does the US control it’s airspace, control its currency or have legal jurisdiction in Kosovo? Answer honestly, yes or no?
2 about Ukraine - the only legal way for Crimea to split with Ukraine is by having approval in Ukrainian nationwide referendum, as per its constitution. That didn’t happen, so legally, Crimea is part of Ukraine. Russia, US and UK signed Budapest Memorandum in exchange for Ukraine giving up the third largest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

Now that we established Russia as a violator of the agreement and the aggressor, we can talk about the US actions. Sanctions are the very least of what the Us did.
As for Russia sponsoring terrorism - proof is everywhere, it supplied hardware, even anti aircraft launchers to people who shoot at Ukrainian army from heavily populated residential areas, therefore resulting in civilians being subjected to risk of death, and sometimes it did result in deaths. It also has training camps next to Ukrainian borders. So, yeah, Russia is a state-sponsor of terrorism.

 

I recall the investigative reporter Robert Parry saying in Consortium News, that when he asked the Intelligence agent why they didn't tell the public that Russia had nothing to do with shooting down of the airliner in Ukraine now that they knew for sure, and being told that Russia had everything going for it, but all Washington has is their propaganda.

Surprise, surprise!

Propaganda = Lies

 

You do not have to argue with him. Do not answer. This is the Ukrainian troll.

 

Ukraine is a sponsor of Nazism.

 

That doesn't mean they are lting now, so the fallacy is all yours, my friend. In fact, the agreement amojg all of them is good reason to believe they are not lying.

No, that is the lie... so now the fallacy and lies belong to you, not me

You assume so much utter, unsupported nonsense in your post... no wonder you are so excitable. i'm sure reality often disappoints you and your fantasy. Here's a fact: rand Paul the neolibertarian, randian fool, is cozying up to an authoritarian and his oligarchs. Defend that all you like... the floor is yours, take as much rope as you need...

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The Ukrainian government sponsored that march? And you know this... how?

 

This has been known for a long time. The last tranche - $ 14,000 for some action, the media reported this scandal.
https://www.abcnyheter.no/nyheter/v...itaere-ultranasjonalister-far-herje-i-ukraina

 

Interesting. Could you link me up to some reports of this state-sponsored naziism in Ukraine? thanks.

 

Of course not, then Washington would be responsible for what's goes on in Kosovo. They just want to reap the benefits - like the largest military base in Europe, without having to worry about the terrorists and drug trade. It's not even a colony, because then Washington would still be responsible for what goes on there.

Oh no it's not, and here are three accounts that prove it. Take your pick:

Number 1

Under the Crimean Constitution of 1992, Crimea existed as a legal, democratic, secular state. Crimea’s relationship with Ukraine was based on bilateral agreements. In 1995 Ukrainian special ops forces and Ukrainian Army troops invaded Crimea and annexed the territory.

The Autonomous Republic of Crimea was established by the 1991 All-Union Referendum in which 94% of Crimeans voted in favor of re-establishing their status as an autonomous republic. Crimeans repeated the vote in 2014 by an even higher percentage, and this time prevented another Ukrainian invasion by reuniting with Russia.
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Number 2

The Hague declared with Kosovo, that people have a right to their own self determination. The Crimeans did that with the referendum.​

Number 3​

Yanukovich was still the president of Ukraine according to a document signed by Yanukovich, the opposition and the EU. The mafia government in Kiev appointed by Pyatt and Nuland was illegal, so all Crimea needed was Yanukovich's permission to secede - according to the constitution. The mafias and Nazis tried to kill him, but they didn't manage thanks to Vladimir Putin.

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As for the rest of what you wrote, it's just as much garbage as everything else.

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so does america by your logic, and don't get me started on Russian fascists.

 

Is it true that the people who with the help of the US, are veritable neo nazis? I have heard that online from some sources, but is it a fact?

And what was it about their elected president that the US and perhaps other gov'ts in the west did not like, and wanted him removed? I read that he would not accept loans, that are generally used to pillage a nation, when they cannot be repaid per the contract? This ploy is used and can be read about in Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, by John Perkins, and economic hit man for may years. Did this not work, and then the jackals were sent in? Ukraine might be a by the book example of the book written by Perkins.

Is it possible that western interests could not get what they wanted from the elected president, and the CIA and NGOs were involved in the coup? To take down an elected president? Well, that is indeed what appears to have happened, for we know from that recorded conversation between Nuland and the US ambassador there that we were choosing who would replace the elected president! You can listen to this conversation on you tube. And hear it for yourself what was said.

And yet russia is the only bad player here? ha ha ha. While we are snow white in our innocence. Once again caught meddling in the gov't of another nation, even a coup, against international law, and what have you ever heard about this in MSM? ha ha ha. And yet some here will claim MSM is a real endeavor of journalism? Supplying americans with the facts? Not once did you hear that recorded conversation of nuland and the ambassador in MSM! They blacked it out! How many americans even know of this info?

It is self evident what our Press is. And it isn't what many on the left say it is. It is nothing more than grand farce, existing to manufacture consent, and to condition americans with BS. But who is actually being served by it? Follow the money as the old saw goes. Or follow who benefits from having a fake Press, and faux journalism.

 

https://www.abcnyheter.no/nyheter/v...itaere-ultranasjonalister-far-herje-i-ukraina

 

In Russia and the USA Nazis are in prison. And in Ukraine they kill people.

 

1) Annexation is annexation - and what is this other nonsense. Russia does not control Ukraine's airspace nor their currency - nor do they have legal Jurisdiction in Ukraine. What a bunch of nonsense that does nothing but deflect.

2) The party that we helped get into power are fascist nazi's that right away started persecuting Russians living in Ukraine. The separatists are not terrorists under any realistic definition of the word. It does not make one a terrorist to shoot at the Ukrainian army from civilian populated areas. Just because you make up your own nonsense definitions does not make those nonsense definitions true.

Regardless:

You want to know who Terrorists are -- Al Qaeda and ISIS who the US armed and supported - with a whole lot more than the separatists ever got who are not terrorists to begin with. So if Russia is a state sponsor of terrorism on this basis .. this makes us far worse - and this is just one example .. would you like a more detailed list ?

This is the pinnacle of hypocrisy.

And this is only one of the 3 points/questions put to you. What response have you to the other 2 which are even more nonsensical and preposterous in relation to being some "state sponsor of terrorism".

 

There was no "agreement" among at the time this was being claimed. It was a lie at the time. Is it still a lie ? Maybe not but as Ron Paul stated there is no solid evidence. You completely failed to address any of the issues given in the link provided .. do I have to post contents of that link ? Nor did you address any of my comments in relation to your claim nor give any evidence to support your claim.

All you are doing is talking over evidence to the contrary.

I have not committed a single fallacy - and it is a fact that the pundits claiming all the intelligence agencies at the time were lying.

Then you go on a demonization rant. What unsupported nonsense ? It is your complete lack of ability to back up your claims and address evidence to the contrary that is nonsense.

You are the one defending authoritarianism. Quit transferring your flaws onto others. It is Ron that is fighting against authoritarianism - in defending the State Propaganda Machine.

Senator Menendez was wanting to put Russia on the State Sponsor of Terror list gave the following as rational - which was what Ron Paul was addressing as hypocrisy.

1) The Kremlin continues to attack our democracy,

How is the Kremlin continuing to "Attack" our democracy. Regardless - we are the biggest "attackers" of the democratic process of other nations on the planet.

How does this make the US or Russia a "State sponsor of Terrorism" ?

2)support a war criminal in Syria, and

We support Saudi Arabia (who is committing countless war crimes at least equal to and in fact worse than anything Assad did) How does this make the US or Russia a "State sponsor of Terrorism" ?

Russia and Assad were fighting the terrorists (Al Qaeda/ISIS and others) - are you seriously going to try to deny this ?

3) violate Ukraine’s sovereignty.”

How does Russia annexing Crimea (which was done on the basis of popular vote) -or the US annexing Kosovo (setting precedent btw) make Russia or the US "State Sponsors of Terrorism"

 

What a bunch of twaddle. The US Gov't does not support the people in your picture. The Gov't of Ukraine does support the fascist Nazi's.

 

Russia controls airspace over Crimea, controls currency and all aspects of Crimean law.
Therefore your claim that the US annexed Kosovo is false, as what happened in Kosovo cannot be compared to Crimea.

Give me the proof of new Ukrainian Government persecuting russians in Ukraine. I was born there, have many friends and relatives in Ukraine, most of them are using Russian for everyday life, and none of them claimed that they felt persecuted or treated unfairly in any way. In fact, they are all disgusted at Russia’s actions!

It doesn’t change the fact that Russia is the state sponsor of terrorism.

First point about Russian involvement in us elections - I have stated many times on this board that Russia’s spending was tiny, they didn’t reach many people. They did attempt to influence the elections, it’s a known fact.
As for Assad - he is a war criminal that was enabled by Obama. I don’t know why we are involved in that conflict and I did voice this opinion several times on this board. I’m also not heavily interested in that conflict, so I can’t say one way or another.

Placing a country on the list of states sponsors of terrorism triggers heavy sanctions. As a US citizen I’m in favor of placing Russia on that list.
Ron Paul’s views on Russia is clearly wrong as he does not seem to be aware of the Budapest Memorandum. He also doesn’t seem to know much about anything, come to think of it, but even wrong clock can show correct time twice a day.

 

The government of Ukraine gives the Nazis weapons and sends them to fight in the Donbass against the residents. The government pays the Nazis to kill civilians.

 

English!

 

Post the proof that it is Ukrainian policy to recruit Nazis and send them to Target the residents of Donbas. Oh, and authorization from Ukrainian parliament to fund such program.

 

Do you think that the Ukrainian authorities are idiots? They put the secret documents out in the open?

 

So, you made a claim and can’t back it up with anything but pictures. You can’t even identify who exactly is in the picture. You can’t identify whose side of the conflict these victims are on.

 

Also, I’d like proof that these victims, each and every one of them, died by Ukrainian armed forces. Then, after that, I want proof that each Ukrainian soldier that caused every single death in your photographs was a Nazi. And then I want proof that each and every one of those troops were recruited specifically for their ideology.