Rouhani warns: ‘War with Iran is the mother of all wars’

Okay, I have given the picture of the major industries in Iran -- and how Trump's policies have affected them. With that picture in mind, you can better evaluate whether Trump is fooling himself, is fooled, or is right in the comments he made this morning about Iran. I am sure Trump likes to think he is "winning", just like this supporters here on this thread, but it just doesn't look that way to me.

https://en.radiofarda.com/a/trump-says-iran-would-like-to-talk-but-does-not-know-how/30116984.html
Trump Says 'Iran Would Like To Talk' But Does Not Know How

Normally, a side that is winning raises its demands. In the case of the US, it went from listing 12 demands to offering talks with no preconditions.

 

Iranians are also great inventors. Looka here, one of the latest and the greatest, only from Iran - a finger cutting machine!!

 

I don't like to share pictures of the ugly side of life, but maps and charts like the ones below should make the point.




These countries imprison a greater share of their population than other nations.

 

Not that by imprisoning so many people (over 2 million!), the US is all that effective combating crime:

 

It’s funny that you mention it.
I bet If the US used capital punishment for things as petty as adultery and homosexuality, and amputated parts of criminals bodies instead of giving them jail times, the prison population here would definitely get lower.

Isn’t that the irony that an Iranian brings this up, totally ignoring own brutal justice system that was created by a bunch of sadists and pedophiles just 1,400 years ago.

 

Yep, better use Iran’s methods - chop those fingers and hands off, pour some acid on someone’s face, stone someone to death.
You guys are REAL humanitarians!

 

You can splatter this page and thread with all the propaganda, the lies, or in some cases complete misrepresentation of the actual facts, and add a few real isolated cases, and try to paint any picture you like of Iran. It won't change the real picture as it relates to either Iran or the United States.
To be convicted of either adultery or sodomy in Iran requires 4 actual witnesses to the sexual act. Anyone who accuses someone of either of these crimes without bringing forth 4 witnesses to the actual sexual act is himself subject to severe punishment. The law on these issues, in Iran at least (don't know about your buddies in Wahhabi Arabia), is meant to serve a moral statement about what is deemed proper or improper behavior. Not as a real tool for punishing anyone.

That said, the criminal justice system in Iran is not something I would endorse -- or suggest be emulated elsewhere. Iran does, in fact, carry out capital punishment for certain crimes that would be serious crimes anywhere (murder, rape, kidnapping, major drug offenses), but which many places would not employ such punishments. The use of capital punishment in Iran for such crimes (not the silly and false propaganda stories you are accustomed to hearing) is too high and there are a lot of other issues that I have with the criminal justice system in Iran. But one of the punishments that Iran does use occasionally for criminal behavior, and which I actually prefer to long prison terms, is lashing. While endorsing lashing as a proper punishment is not politically correct in the west, I find caging and imprisoning people the worst type of punishment there is. Sometimes a necessary evil perhaps, but all the same, a terrible one.

 

I don't like to use this analogy, but it's a true one.
Some people on this forum are old enough to remember Ronald Reagan.
Some of us -- you're reading something by him now -- are old enough to remember Harry Truman.
If you're one of those, you will know that the United States has, since either of those times, undergone HUGE changes, in the beliefs, laws, habits of its people.

When I was growing up, we had a daily prayer in school. (I'm religious now, but it didn't do me a bit of harm.)
Now, that's been outlawed. A voluntary prayer at a football game ... I forget, is that illegal now? If not, it will be soon.

We had the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag, daily. I understand that in California, there is a bill before the State Legislature to have a daily flag-burning.

All this has changed. It has changed from the inside. Despite certain occaisonal paranoid tales, no evil outside force transformed America.

I'm not saying these are bad changes and in any case, there have been many good changes as well. At my school, there were no Black kids. We were racially segregated, by law.

Countries change. Iran is changing. Iran is subject to the same deep social forces to which America is.

There are young people in Iran who want to live in a different kind of country ... one more like Europe ...(I would like to believe, one more like America also but nowadays, I'm not so sure we are like that "City on a Hill" that some early Americans hoped would serve as a model and beacon to the world. More like a lunatic asylum on a hill.)

These young people will grow up -- if we let them. They will change Iran -- from the inside. It's how most illiberal regimes become more tolerant and democratic. We had dictatorships in Spain and Greece, all of Eastern Europe, all over Latin America -- they weren't changed by American invasions, not even by bloody internal uprising and civil wars.

The rulers found they couldn't go on ruling in the old way, as popular opinion moved against them.

This will happen in Iran.

Most Americans know ZERO about this country. This forum, and @IranianMonitor' posts, give us a chance to learn something about it.

I MEAN FOR F****'S SAKE YOU STUPID B*******S THIS IS THE KIND OF MAN WE WANT TO SEE RUNNING THAT COUNTRY SOME DAY AND WHAT KIND OF RESPONSE DOES HE GET HERE???????

 

Your underlying point, about societies changing, is valid and is certainly true of a country with a young population such as Iran. That said, I want to say 2 things on an idea that underlines your post:

1- As long as western civilization is the most advanced civilization, aspiring to be "like the west" would represent progress. In this regard, there are millions of Iranians who fit what you said: people who are westernized and would like to make their country something that looks more like the west.
2- There are Iranians who are actually quite progressive, aren't at all tied to any particular religious dogma, who nonetheless would like to see Iran progress, develop, and chart a path all its own. Of course, we all are influenced by things around us, but merely copying what is done elsewhere is not to me a sign of progress either. Learning from human experience everywhere, and then adapting that learning to advance the society you live in, in the process building on your own rich civilization, to me is the best recipe for Iran. And one that millions of other Iranians aspire to as well.

 

On my last point, and the battle between the 3 major competing forces in Iranian society as it relates to social and cultural issues (namely, traditionalist, westernized, progressive) one place where one can depict that battle is in the different fashion that young Iranians are choosing for themselves every day.

To trace this, I begin with the traditional, both rural and urban, then the westernized, and then the hybrid between traditional and western represented by today's progressive fashion in Iran.
Traditional/Rural:


Traditional/Urban:



Westernized (Shah era pictures):


3- The hybrid fashion that is much in vogue in Iran today:

 

Of course this is true, for all non-Western societies, let alone an ancient civilization like Iran which was building paved highways when Europeans were walking along muddy trails. I know about "Westtoxification" and do not disagree with the concept.

The 'West' just got there first.

A slight variation in history and Islamic society, or the Indians, or -- my bet -- the Chinese would have hit on that combination of 'killer apps' that allowed the tribes on that little peninsula of Asia called 'Europe' to dominate the world for five centuries. Then I would be chafing under the rule of some sort of extreme authoritarian Catholic or Puritan reaction to "Asian domination" and watching Persian videos in translation on my TV and wishing we could have a free society like yours.

I have no doubt at all that the Iran of the end of the century will be a totally transformed place, a place I would feel comfortable living in, but that it will not -- God forbid!!! -- be a Persian copy of San Francisco.

 

Understand that my conservative colleagues have been driven to a somewhat belligerent ultra-patriotism by the America-hating Left in their own country, which has spread its malign influence throughout our educational establishment. It's a reflexive response to seeing one's beloved country in the grip of an alien force, something Iranians can understand. They will learn better. As a successful politician said a century ago, our task at the moment is to "patiently explain".

 

Damn, man!!!!!
Your women are awesome! I dated one more than 10 years ago. Still have good memories.

 

It is not just our women. There are still many rough edges that need to be worked on and cleaned up, but Iran itself is rather awesome.
Following the same format I mentioned, namely pitting the products of 'traditional Iran', the 'westernized Iran', and the hybrid of both, here are some pictures of Iran that might open your eyes to this vast and rather awesome country.

I. Westernized Iran
The capital of westernized Iran is definitely Tehran, but there are westernized colonies all over the rest of Iran as well. Tehran looks like this from above:

And when you visit it from inside, you will find life in the large westernized parts of Iran actually isn't all that different than elsewhere. All photos here courtesy of the photo gallery from the article "Everyday Iran: What Hardliners In The US And Iran Don’t Want You To See".










Next, I will cover "traditional Iran" for you to see. In many ways, traditional Iran being the more beautiful part of Iran! Certainly, the part that draws the most tourists.

 

All I see are 6’s and 7’s

Where are the really gorgeous iranian women?

 

The pictures aren't about fashion models, but different fashions in Iran. But, of course, in the process, you do see the younger Iranian women (some who rate lower and some higher) in people's scale of beauty. I was busy doing something else, introducing people to the different faces of Iran pitting the "westernized", the "traditional", and the hybrid of both, but because you asked, here are some famous Iranian women in professions were their beauty is part of their fame. Of course, to find your version of something close to a "10", you will need to see Iranian women who fit into the western culture that likes to stress not just their beauty, but their sexuality as well. Those would be Iranian women working or modeling outside the country and you can find pictures of them in this site and others like it.

But from those working in Iran, where beauty is allowed but sexuality is meant for public display, here are 3 famous Iranian actresses who I would rate highly enough. Beauty, of course, is ultimately in the eyes of the beholder and the might not fit your taste! That is fine.
Leila Hatami

2- Nikki Karimi

3- Taraneh Alidoosti

 

Red lipstick and large shades look good on Iranian women.
The girl I dated over ten years ago looked similar to the one in the quote, 4th picture from below, girl in shades. She was as religious as most of the Americans who say they were “raised Christian” but rarely, if ever, attend religious ceremonies. Obviously, she never used any headwear, since she lives in the US.

 

They are not much better than the others

Among muslims some Arab women are world class

And based on the following video I have put Turkey on my list of muslim places I would like to visit

 

It would be worse if they were running around loose

 

I consider Iranian women, on average, to be among the most beautiful in the world. This is what is, in fact, quite striking in Iran: you walk the streets, cafes and restaurants, and you will see more than an average number of rather beautiful women in Iran. And I wouldn't be the only one to say this. However, there are beautiful women in all nationalities and races and. while there have been a few Iranian women ending up with titles such as "Ms universe" etc, I don't think the very best looking women are necessarily from Iran. But I do think that, on average, there are very few nationalities are as good looking as those in Iran.

 

Actually, come to think of it its the only muslim country on the list

 

Back to boats and escalation!!

The US believes the tanker is now heading for Greece and is making all sorts of howling. It is claiming helping the Adrian Darya 1, could be seen as helping 'terrorists'. They are angry because Gibraltar would not let them have it saying to do so would be against EU law. They hoped to seize the tanker, the oil it carries and $1,000,000. They are being very threatening to anyone who may think of allowing it in, really going quite insane imo.

Iran is saying it still holds Britain responsible and it is up to Britain to make sure it arrives safely to its destination.

So they are waiting to see how Greece responds, how the US is going to try to escalate the situation further. Zarif apparently said that Iran had no intention to go to war, it had avoided starting a war for over 250 years and had taught any who decided on war with it a lesson.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/2...ds-to-greece-us-warns-against-helping-vessel/

 

Yeah, we got carried away...

 

I dont think the iranian women are ugly

Just somewhat pedestrian if you know what I mean

 

It would be your loss. Turkey is quite nice, and much of its beauty is actually based on its Persianate past. (The Ottomans, the Seljuks were both empires that are considered part of the Persianate world despite the Ottomans being rivals of Iran and at war with Iran for most of their history). But while I wouldn't rate Iran necessarily higher than Turkey, I rate it as ultimately more authentic. In fact, the traditional part of Iran can be quite absorbing to any visitor. Absorbing enough for many Iranians to wonder whether they want to see their beautiful heritage rank sacked under the mindless form of westernization we see around us, with McDonald's, KFC et al taking over much of the landscape every where you go. (If we were copying Florence etc, it would be one thing; but to copy what even American have to admit aren't really aesthetically pleasing monuments to modernity would be a loss).

You can get a sense of the power of traditional Iran in what John Simpson wrote for the telegraph not long ago, in an article entitled: Iran: The Most Charming Country on Earth:

p.s.
I have posted pictures of traditional Iran previously in other threads in this forum. I am tired now, but will just simply pit traditional Iran versus modern Iran in a few pictures as follows:

v