Rudy Giuliani, Lindsey Graham and John Eastman subpoenaed by Fulton County DA in election probe

Gore asked for recounts in Florida. He requested this before the election was certified. Once Gore lost all of his court cases, he gave up. Trump didn't. Trump ALSO requested "selective hand counts." Gore never asked anyone to make up votes that didn't exist. Unlike Trump, Gore never attempted to overthrow the election.

 

This is what they were pressuring Pence to actually do.

 

That is of no matter, he was still trying to overturn the certified election results after his claims of a shitty voting system had been summarily dismissed in court. He went beyond the rules of the election to the FSC which without any authority to do so vacated the certified results and allowed him to go and try and find the several hundred votes he needed to overturn those results making him President-elect.

 

C'mon man... it's 2 whole pages with a lot of multiple syllable words and deep thought content...

If Eastman had titled it "One State, Two State, Red State was Blue State", the MAGA's might take a peek...

 

That is exactly how Trump was trying to get the win, with recounts and challenges to the process especially in states where officials and judges changed the rules in mid-stream.

 

Just at the headline

 

Again, you obviously haven't read the Eastman memo. You should try.

 

What part recounts and challenges does fraudulent electors and pressuring the VP to fraudulently certify the election does that fall into?

 

Although included in the fraud you already mentioned, it's worth breaking it down further for @Bluesguy

What part of recounts and challenges does simply ERASING the EC votes of several states, and giving the presidency to the candidate who had the majority of the remaining votes, fall into?

What part of recounts and challenges covers abandoning the EC entirely and just forcing a House vote instead?

 

Trump never asked anyone to make up votes that didn't exist either, he genuinely thought he'd been cheated, his ego wouldn't let him accept he'd been beaten. Gore DID try to overthrow the election as he genuinely thought he might have a chance to win on a technicality, Trump was the same. Both were wrong and neither were undemocratic. Trump didn't do anything Gore didn't do.

 

I hadn’t heard of the Eastman memo — absolutely disgusting

These people must be stopped by any means necessary or this country is lost. They are not beneath openly stealing elections.

 

Which didn't happen, Trump genuinely thought he won and had been cheated and wanted time to mount legal challenges, no mens rea.

 

I agree that he may genuinely just be an idiot. Doesn't make it okay. And Trump did a metric shitload that Gore never did, as I've thoroughly detailed. It wasn't remotely the ****ing same.

 

Trump had been informed, by his own counsel and by the people he was talking to, that he was full of ****. And if you encourage someone to perform an illegal act, it doesn't matter if you think you were justified. OJ went to jail for robbery even though he thought the property belonged to him.

 

Except it did happen
https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2022/07/05/trumps-fake-electors-heres-the-full-list-2/

Groups from Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, New Mexico, Nevada, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin all allegedly met in December 2020 and sent lists of so-called alternate electors to the National Archives after the 2020 election. The scheme is reportedly under investigation by the FBI and the Department of Justice, which have issued subpoenas to several of the people involved.​

So because you feel trump was delusional that none of the above matters?

 

That "technicality" being more legal votes than Bush in Florida....

Your last sentence is a hoot though... That alone was worth me getting onto the site today....

 

Have you never had to deal with a lawyer and a legal process? You know where you ask them what are all my options we could possibly use to win my case. Your attorney list them and you discuss which are viable and which are not, which a judge might accept and which have a slim chance?

"In two separate phone interviews this month, Eastman spoke to National Review for nearly an hour total about the memos he drafted and his private meeting in the White House on January 4 with President Trump, Vice President Pence, Pence’s legal counsel Greg Jacob, and Pence’s chief of staff Marc Short.

The two-page memo published in Peril was drafted on Christmas Eve, and a final six-page memo was drafted on January 3, says Eastman. “They were internal discussion memos for the legal team. I had been asked to put together a memo of all the available scenarios that had been floated,” Eastman says. “I was asked to kind of outline how each of those scenarios would work and then orally present my views on whether I thought they were valid or not, so that’s what those memos did.”

Who asked Eastman to write the first memo? “It was somebody in the legal team. I just don’t recall,” Eastman says. “It was by a phone conversation, and I’ve gone back in my phone records, and I have so many calls, I can’t tell, you know, which call it was.”

“I was asked, if this was the view of the law that were adopted by the court, how would it play out?”

Eastman says he disagrees with some major points in the two-page memo. That version says that Trump would be reelected if Pence invalidated enough electoral votes to send the election to the House of Representatives: “Republicans currently control 26 of the state delegations, the bare majority needed to win that vote. President Trump is reelected there as well.”

Eastman’s final six-page memo says Trump would be reelected by the House “IF the Republicans in the State Delegations stand firm.” But Eastman says he told Trump at the January 4 meeting in the White House: “Look, I don’t think they would hold firm on this.” (There were actually 27 delegations under GOP control, but Liz Cheney is the sole representative for Wyoming, Wisconsin’s decisive vote would have been Mike Gallagher, and both Cheney and Gallagher strongly opposed overturning the results of the election.)

“So anybody who thinks that that’s a viable strategy is crazy,” Eastman tells National Review."
https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/10/john-eastman-vs-the-eastman-memo/

And here the key points

The first

1. VP Pence, presiding over the joint session (or Senate Pro Tempore Grassley, if Pence recuses himself), begins to open and count the ballots, starting with Alabama (without conceding that the procedure, specified by the Electoral Count Act, of going through the States alphabetically is required).
2. When he gets to Arizona, he announces that he has multiple slates of electors, and so is going to defer decision on that until finishing the other States. This would be the first break with the procedure set out in the Act.
3. At the end, he announces that because of the ongoing disputes in the 7 States, there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those States. That means the total number of “electors appointed” – the language of the 12th Amendment – is 454. This reading of the 12th Amendment has also been advanced by Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe. A “majority of the electors appointed” would therefore be 228. There are at this point 232 votes for Trump, 222 votes for Biden. Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected.
4. Howls, of course, from the Democrats, who now claim, contrary to Tribe’s prior position, that 270 is required. So Pence says, fine. Pursuant to the 12th Amendment, no candidate has achieved the necessary majority. That sends the matter to the House, where “the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote . . .” Republicans currently control 26 of the state delegations, the bare majority needed to win that vote. President Trump is re-elected there as well.
5. One last piece. Assuming the Electoral Count Act process is followed and, upon getting the objections to the Arizona slates, the two houses break into their separate chambers, we should not allow the Electoral Count Act constraint on debate to control. That would mean that a prior legislature was determining the rules of the present one – a constitutional no-no (as Tribe has forcefully argued). So someone – Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, etc. – should demand normal rules (which includes the filibuster). That creates a stalemate that would give the state legislatures more time to weigh in to formally support the alternate slate of electors, if they had not already done so.
6. The main thing here is that Pence should do this without asking for permission – either from a vote of the joint session or from the Court. Let the other side challenge his actions in court, where Tribe (who in 2001 conceded the President of the Senate might be in charge of counting the votes) and others who would press a lawsuit would have their past position – that these are non-justiciable political questions – thrown back at them, to get the lawsuit dismissed. The fact is that the Constitution assigns this power to the Vice President as the ultimate arbiter. We should take all of our actions with that in mind.

The second

• VP Pence opens the ballots, determines on his own which is valid, asserting that the authority to make that determination under the 12th Amendment, and the Adams and Jefferson precedents, is his alone (anything in the Electoral Count Act to the contrary is therefore unconstitutional).
  • If State Legislatures have certified the Trump electors, he counts those, as required by Article II (the provision of the Electoral Count Act giving the default victory to the “executive”-certified slate therefore being unconstitutional). Any combination of states totaling 38 elector votes, and TRUMP WINS.
  • If State Legislatures have not certified their own slates of electors, VP Pence determines, based on all the evidence and the letters from state legislators calling into question the executive certifications, decides to count neither slate of electors. (Note: this could be done with he gets to Arizona in the alphabetical roster, or he could defer Arizona and the other multi-slate states until the end, and then make the determination). At the end of the count, the tally would therefore be 232 for Trump, 222 for Biden. Because the 12th Amendment says “majority of electors appointed,” having determined that no electors from the 7 states were appointed (a position in accord with that taken by Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe (here), TRUMP WINS.
  • Alternatively, VP Pence determines that because multiple electors were appointed from the 7 states but not counted because of ongoing election disputes, neither candidate has the necessary 270 elector votes, throwing the election to the House. IF the Republicans in the State Delegations stand firm, the vote there is 26 states for Trump, 23 for Biden, and 1 split vote. TRUMP WINS.
• VP Pence determines that the ongoing election challenges must conclude before ballots can be counted, and adjourns the joint session of Congress, determining that the time restrictions in the Electoral County Act are contrary to his authority under the 12th Amendment and therefore void. Taking the cue, state legislatures convene, order a comprehensive audit/investigation of the election returns in their states, and then determine whether the slate of electors initially certified is valid, or whether the alternative slate of electors should be certified by the legislature, exercise authority it has directly from Article II and also from 3 U.S.C. § 2, which provides: “Whenever any State has held an election for the purpose of choosing electors, and has failed to make a choice on the day prescribed by law, the electors may be appointed on a subsequent day in such a manner as the legislature of such State may direct.”
  • If ... the investigation proves to the satisfaction of the legislature that there was sufficient fraud and illegality to affect the results of the election, the Legislature certifies the Trump electors. Upon reconvening the Joint Session of Congress, those votes are counted and TRUMP WINS.

POSSIBLE legal strategies.

Nothing about a coup, nothing about a riot, nothing about overthrowing the government, nothing seditious. Challenges during the electoral vote count you know like the Dems challenged electors and want electors replaced twice with Bush43 and with Trump's first election.

 

Gore's "technicalities" were summarily dismissed in court. Then he tried to create votes out of hanging chads and slight marks on ballots, just enough so he would win and overturn the CERTIFIED election results.

Was he charged with a crime?

 

With Gore it was just one state but he went further than Trump ever did in that state.

 

I'm still fascinated by the story that Penn and NM added language to their fake certificates that they were truly conditional, awaiting a court ruling making them valid.

Which according to Josh Shapiro, makes the Pa document not a true forgery of a state document (no word on federal crime status)

SNIP
Unlike in Pennsylvania and New Mexico, Republicans in the other five states certified that they were their state's duly elected and qualified electors, the AP noted.
ENDSNIP

https://www.yahoo.com/news/shapiros-office-gop-elector-plan-143200613.html

What a difference 1 sentence fragment could make....

 

The same part the Dems used against him and Bush43 twice the Electoral Voting Act which should be repealed so no one can try it again.

 

That's not even remotely true. Trump went FAR further in ALL of the states he was complaining about than Gore did in just one. Far more.

 

Dems never tried what Trump tried.

 

So the trump team asked about the viability of the strategy meaning they were considering it — how is this acceptable in your eyes. If this was Biden would you be shrugging so indifferently?

They didn’t try to challenge the electors they created fraudulent ones. There is a difference

 

Gore went from circuit court where his challenge was summarily dismissed, the election was then proper certified and it was over but he then got the Democrat FSC to vacate the certification and unconstitutionally usurp the plenary authority of the SecState and order unconstitutional selective hand recounts so he could make up votes and was in the process of those hand recounts when the SCOTUS had to interject and ask the FSC where they got the authority to do so. The FSC could not give a reason and SCOTUS order the recounts stopped. Gore got the FSC to START THEM AGAIN. And it took the SCOTUS once again to demand the FSC state where they derived such authority, they could not respond and the illegal recounts were stopped. It went on for over 30 days with the election in the balance.
In fact he got closer to overthrowing an election than Trump ever got.