Rue, Britannia <<Moderator's Warning Issued>>

Oh, do you mean like Americans "break[ing]...apart" our own country, into red and blue states?

 

Not part, a member, with very special privileges.

 

I agree entirely.
The rise of the Far Right in Europe may be laid in its entireity at the door of the idiot-liberal-socialdemocratic left, who allowed mass Third World immigration into that continent.

 

Yes and No. The rise of the AfD was caused and is caused by the links liberalen, left socialdemocrats, as you call them.
Liberal in their understanding is, everybody is equal. If you do not think like them you go into the brown pot.
If a women feels insecure on a bar trip because their are to many strangers hanging around, from different countries, than she is a racist.
They do not get that this might be an instinct. They never ask why are you feeling insecure
Homosexuality or transgender or what ever are no problem for me, am I comfi with all those different sexes or what ever it is called, no.
Its ok with me if they have the same rights, but if I mention that I do not feel comfi, boom of in the corner.
I call that s form of opinion fascism, this black and white thinking.
It created the AfD, because the more conservative, far more than me, the right wing of CDU and CSU had no place anymore to go.
Nobody was willing to listen to their concerns.
Take the area were I come from, North Hessen, was SPD country, always economical way behind South Hessen. Nobody hardly cared about the wishes of those people. Very rural, farming and so on. They were easy targets for the AfD. Turned them from Social Democrats to AfD voters. It is not the 3 World Emigrants, yes they are part of it, it is not responding to people with conservative base values, traditional values, which made the AfD so strong.
I say engage those people, if you don't, you push them further to the right.
European liberalism is good, but it has to reach in both direction, from the left to the right, you can not exclude and that is the problem.

 

Name a specific example.
An occasion where a law or regulation was forced on Britain without the approval of Parliament.

 

Wunderschönen.

 

strike the n at the end of the word.

 

Or its vote in the council, which law was forced on the UK against its vote in the council.

None.

 

Google translate let me down
https://translate.google.com/?client=firefox-b-d&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&client=tw-ob#auto/de/beautiful

 

I don't think it is anything to do with what you say. I think it is to do with economics and the people being encouraged to hate the other rather than deal with that issue, made of course more easy in East Germany who had never worked through the issues which had given rise to Nazism. It also has nothing to do with any left. Equal rights for all were followed by all but the far right.

I also do not agree with the 'we have to listen to them or they will get worse'. That is what the far right demanded several years ago and they became worse and worse as people felt they had to listen until in many places now they are becoming the norm - does not stop it being a repeat of the 1930's.

 

It happens, I always screw up payed and paid, who gives, as long as we can enjoy those things.

Humor and laughter has become such a rare commodity.

lets enjoy it, don't you agree, our funny mistakes. Makes us so much human.

I learnt to embrace the old wisdom and live by it, I am the sum of my mistakes and once you truly understand that, you have figured your self out and live happily.

 

It has nothing to do with economics. It is about values. The area were I come from has always been depressed. The so called Zonen Randgebiet. They voted consistently left, SPD, because they represented the core values of the workers, the blue collar party.
But blue collar have very conservative values, they voted SPD because of social justice, which the Party once represented, the workers party.
Ain't the case today. Today they represent the left euro liberals and not their core. The CDU move to the left and harvested SPD voters, but forgot the very conservative.
I call them the conservative value voters.
Yes we have to listen to them and engage them and take their issues as important as ours. Their concerns, worries and opinions are as valuable as your and mine and we have to find away to bring them to gather.
I call my self a liberal conservative, Euro style, not US. If you want to be a euro liberal, you have to be open, you can not think black and white and that is the problem.

 

Very interesting. It's the same in the US, although we never really had mass socialist parties here, like the KPD and SPD in your country.

But we did have a serious socialist/communist Left, who had real influence back in the 1930s, and they were very active in organizing our working class. At that time, the white working class was FAR more backward in terms of its social attitudes, than it is today. But those Leftists did not let that stop them -- they went out among them and organized trade unions and led rent strikes and did their best to help these people fight for their economic interests.

Today's progressives generally have nothing but contempt for our white working class. They have "improved" on the old Left, but it's a Schlimmverbesserung, in my opinion.

 

So you have it, we did not start WW I

 

Bullshit. Im young, have good job and travel. I want order, security. I dont want live in a shithole. Thats why i vote AfD. I dont want 3rd world scum around me.

 

The rise of the far right, the blaming of the other which is what your post seemed to be about is caused by economics. The West economic system is not working. The 'centrists' refuse to acknowledge this because it worked for them. Those on the left work to get the economic system which is not working changed though in this instance this appears to be having a no show in Europe. Those on the right work to get fascism in resulting in a collusion with Corporate Power in an attempt to keep the economic system going at the cost of blaming the problems on 'the other' rather than where it belongs, the economic system. The result of that blaming of the other is the end of most rights. We return to the situation which gave rise to WW2 and with that goes the end of the EU.

While I have been supporting the UK staying in the EU, the EU without question does need to be changed. Hence my support of staying in the EU has been coupled with support for DIEM25. I am aware that Corbyn and Diem 25 have agreed to work together particularly should he become PM. Where they come together is recognising that the EU needs non violent revolution to work for the people and answer to the people as well as concern as to what is currently happening in Germany and other countries with the rise in the far right and countries leaving the EU to become ethnic Nationalist states - something which obviously if it happened in the UK would be led by English Nationalism and so result in the break up of the UK.

The reason historically why the West has chosen not to give the far right a voice concerning the hatred of the other has been because it is known that they are not open to discussion. In Germany in the 30's it was noticed that liberals trying to talk to nazis did not work. They were still talking when they had lost their liberty, their right of tolerance. This gave rise to the understanding of the Paradox of tolerance - that if you give tolerance to intolerance it will destroy tolerance.

 

Lots of countries don't follow EU rules or pay fees to the EU. Do you plan on crushing all of them? Or just the UK? Why can't you just accept that the UK wants to be politically independent from Europe? Are good relations with Germany only possible when the country in question submits to the authority of EU bureaucracy?

 

So what would you identify as?

 

They would not be getting the benefit of the single market. Access to the single market is what people get for following the rules either by being a member of the EU or EFTA.

Before the EU Referendum, the EU accepted what Cameron asked for and agreed that the UK would have no further integration with the EU. This one about political Independence is really a red herring. We will have far less if we are tied economically to yourselves which the Leavers want.

 

They can. Why cant you accept that we want be political independend from UK? Or do you want UK dictate us? They want leave EU but kerp free trade. We say free trade means free movement.

Can you respect our legitimate interests as well or is it mandatory for us to bow down and have no own interest?

 

Denying them access to a single market is one thing, but Sobo wants to "crush" them. I think that is going way overboard. There is no reason why Brexit MUST cause a deterioration in relations between the UK and members of the EU. It benefits neither side.

The UK has far more in common culturally with the US than with the European mainland.

 

No, the UK has a functionsl social system and actually is a cultivated country.

 

It's not in your interests to start a trade war with the UK though. Your best interest would be served by finding a way to maintain mutually beneficial trade relations while respecting the UK's desire to stem immigration into their country. I don't see why that has to create a conflict.

 

Are you suggesting the US is not functional or cultivated?

 

Fair enough. The leavers had no thought out plan for leaving. They believed the EU would be desperate to do anything they wanted.

I am not sure that is so but it would remain we would have less Independence tied to the US than we do tied to the EU. We are a big voice in the EU and would be a small satellite tied to the US. I particularly would not like all the wars we would need to fight or all the sanctions we would get.