Second amendment, only for militias?

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Maccabee, Jun 28, 2016.

  1. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    32,023
    Likes Received:
    21,245
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    that has nothing to do with the fact that the founders assumed a free people and that also assumed people who could be armed as they saw fit. ONLY when they joined the militia or the army could government tell them what arms to bear. not when there were not in the military, or active duty
     
  2. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    43,110
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    you are confused. the People are the Militia. you are either well regulated or you are not. it really is that simple, except to gun lovers.
     
  3. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    32,023
    Likes Received:
    21,245
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    this is complete psychobabble. come back when you actually are able to understand that the second amendment

    1) DOES NOT GIVE OR DELEGATE ANY additional power to the federal government

    2) that the right recognized in the second amendment is a right the founders saw an inalienable natural right that pre-existed government

    3) well regulated means a standing militia as opposed to an unorganized militia. You cannot create an effective (well regulated) militia if the people from which it is drawn are disarmed up and until they answer the muster

    4) keeping and bearing arms for the purpose of defending the state or to KEEP the federal army in CHECK is but one of many reasons why free citizens should be armed

    5) NOT A SINGLE FOUNDER's WORDS HAVE EVER BEEN PRODUCED that suggests that the second amendment does not recognize an individual right
     
  4. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    43,110
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    nothing but fallacy, dear?

    the People are the Militia.

    you are either well regulated or you are not.
     
  5. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    15,501
    Likes Received:
    3,740
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What a sappy insult to get a rise out of people for no good reason.
     
  6. DZero

    DZero Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    18
    A militia is just a bunch of armed citizens, so yeah, the 2nd amendment is for militias. To overthrow a tyrannical government.
     
  7. JoakimFlorence

    JoakimFlorence Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Messages:
    1,689
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The Second Amendment was mostly for the States, but it also emphasized that
    it was not the U.S. federal government's prerogative to go around taking guns from everybody.
     
  8. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    15,501
    Likes Received:
    3,740
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Also intrinsically wrong, it is most important to understand that the Right to keep and bear Arms is a Right of The People, first and foremost,
    The Militia is a grant of Authority in times of need, such as Tyranny of some sort or a hunt for Fugitives etc....

    The Second Amendment was for the People, not The States, there was never supposed to be a limit on The People's Right to keep and bear Arms, ending at a State border, or limited to inside a home.

    Since The Right of The People to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed, read restricted, no Government entity is allowed to take Arms away from The People, as this would be Tyranny.

    The Anti-Gun people use a literary device in order to fool people into thinking the Second Amendment ONLY applies to The Militia in order to Alienate The People from their Right to keep and bear Arms, or to restrict The Right to keep and bear Arms to the home, and not in Public where a citizen is more than likely to be attacked whilst unarmed and your Arms are safely stored away at home, Wait Mr. Robber, while I run home and get My gun......

    The Anti Gun crowd use the Second Amendment against us, by intentionally misinterpreting it, so to limit or restrict or even eliminate The Right to keep and bear Arms.
     
  9. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    43,110
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    can't handle equality?

    - - - Updated - - -

    We have the First Amendment for that. The Second Amendment is about the security of a free State.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Especially not well regulated, State Militias.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Our Second Amendment is clearly about the security of a free State. The People are the Militia.
     
  10. OrlandoChuck

    OrlandoChuck Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    6,002
    Likes Received:
    1,313
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What is the metric that you use to judge weather the people are well regulated or not?
     
  11. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    15,501
    Likes Received:
    3,740
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think he is referring to Bowel movements and sometimes a laxative is needed in order to be Well Regulated.
    Nobody wants a constipated Militia !!! Only a Well Regulated Militia !

    :roflol: :roflol: :roflol:
     
  12. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    43,110
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    the simple answer is; you have to muster and be authorized your unit colors, banners, and guidons.
     
  13. JoakimFlorence

    JoakimFlorence Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Messages:
    1,689
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm pretty sure the words "well regulated" had a different meaning back then when the Constitution was written.
    "well running" and "functional operational" would probably give a more accurate rendering of what those words meant. It meant that the respective States maintaining their own militia forces was important to the proper operation of the country.
     
  14. OrlandoChuck

    OrlandoChuck Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    6,002
    Likes Received:
    1,313
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Where is this enumerated?
    Please provide proof.
     
  15. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    43,110
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Article 1, Section 8.

    - - - Updated - - -

    nope; wellness of regulation for the militia of the United States, must be prescribed by our federal Congress.
     
  16. JoakimFlorence

    JoakimFlorence Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Messages:
    1,689
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Don't confuse the state militias with the broader rights of the people to keep arms against federal encroachment when their State government is not supporting that. The Second Amendment really has two aspects to it: the States being able to maintain a militia for their own defense, and the more generalized rights of the people.

    Unfortunately, I think if one tries to take a strictly literal interpretation of the words, one misunderstands what the Amendment was actually intended to mean. You have to look at it in context with the rest of the Constitution and historically. Look at the Tenth Amendment, for example. There is an element of jurisdictional separation of powers as well (federalism).
     
  17. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    15,501
    Likes Received:
    3,740
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Lets analyze " The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution which reads:

    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,
    The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    First, A well regulated Militia, not the ARMY, The Militia, composed of ordinary Citizens otherwise occupied at an occupation, supplying their own arms and transportation and able to respond at a moments notice for training and action.

    The founding Fathers saw the danger of a standing Army, and a well trained Militia composed of The People was needed as a balance of power.

    Since The People are what make up The Militia, The Right of The People to keep and Bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
     
  18. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    43,110
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Wellness of regulation must be prescribed by our federal Congress. It is in Article 1, Section 8.
     
  19. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    43,110
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Which Persons of the People may not be Infringed when keeping and bearing Arms for their State or the Union? Only well regulated Persons of the People.
     
  20. OrlandoChuck

    OrlandoChuck Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    6,002
    Likes Received:
    1,313
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Here is article 1 section 8
    Please indicate where it says "wellness of regulation" ... and what it means to you in laymen terms.

    Section 8 - The Text
    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

    To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

    To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian Tribes;

    To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

    To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

    To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

    To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

    To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

    To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

    To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

    To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

    To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

    To provide and maintain a Navy;

    To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

    To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; —And

    To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
     
  21. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    43,110
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    That is where it is.
     
  22. OrlandoChuck

    OrlandoChuck Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    6,002
    Likes Received:
    1,313
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I asked you to explain what that means.
     
  23. JoakimFlorence

    JoakimFlorence Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Messages:
    1,689
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    0
    And the States still had the right to appoint the officers over their State militia forces. The whole concept behind it was that Congress would set the laws and be able to issue orders for the militia to respond, but it would be the States themselves responsible for executing and carrying out those laws and orders. In this way, the U.S. government was still the one with ultimate legal authority, but the States would not be deprived of having the physical means to resist (although doing so would effectively be an act of rebellion).
     

Share This Page