Should a 'he' be called a 'she' if they still have a penis?

It is easy to dismiss a foreign argument as crazy. If all you have is hyperbole then there is nothing for us to further discuss. If you wish to join me in being objective then I look forward to further discussion with you, else our discussion has come to an end.

I wish to keep my previous argument confined to the context of the OP where I argue that if a person who is born a man chooses to be called a woman then I would respect their wish. Would you not do he same? If not why not?

 

Because we (human society) simply cannot function on a premise of imagined identity. You only need to spend an hour following that premise to it's potential to see how utterly absurd and unworkable it is.

 

Far as I'm concerned, a 'he' is always a 'he' and vice versa. I don't see that people's "lifestyle choices" should be permitted to override basic facts. Feeling like a woman doesn't make a man a woman, operation or no.

 

Identity is often imagined, such as those who judge me as a negative simply because I am a man with long hair. How one judges another says more about the judge than the judged and it is rare that others see me as I see myself. So when others views of me are not in line with my own then who is the one useing their imagination, me, or those who judge me?

What makes a man a man? What makes a woman a woman? Is the only boundary that separates man from a woman genitalia? Does the brain play no part in what it is to be a man or a woman, straight, bisexual, gay, or transsexual? One much smarter than I said that we know more about the observable universe than the human brain thus in my opinion it is illogical by my measure of logic to come to a conclusion on human sexuality based upon incomplete evidence.

What is the premise?

 

You are right, Mamma Jenner gave birth to a boy and called him Bruce. That's another story.
But I don't think we have an answer to the question as posted, and something I elaborated on earlier. Would you (general term) dare walking up to Jenner or Manning (just an example) and address them as "he"?
Is anyone here that confrontational in real life? I like to think that is not the case. Most would either avoid a face to face or be polite. We don't come across transgenders that often. When we do, I just hope we'd do what's right.

 

Well, you know, it might depend on circumstances. If wanted to be diplomatic, I might humor someone in that situation.

 

In order to function as a social group (society), we absolutely depend upon simple identifiers. Social mammals have their own identifiers, but they work on the same principal. When numbers grow beyond a family sized group (where all members are known for character as well as identifiers), we can ONLY depend upon simple identifiers. Expecting 'character' to be identified by random strangers is basically expecting society to behave like a family. It's an absurdity, and profoundly narcissistic on the part of anyone who expects it.

Biology determines gender. Nothing else. It works in the animal kingdom just as well as it does here in crazy land.

 

Really. So you don't humor religious folk? Do you call them mentally ill? Believing in something that has not been shown to exist?
Are you a religious person?

 

Who sets these identifiers for all and by what authority? I argue science should set biological and psychological identifiers and as the science is incomplete in terms of human sexuality and identity I argue that there is no basis to come to any irrevocable conclusion on the subject.

Yet not all mammals are strictly heterosexual.

The scientific study of biology is incomplete. The human brain is biological as are its internal processes which are largely a mystery to science. Like I previously argued, it is illogical by my measure of logic to come to an irrevocable conclusion based upon incomplete evidence.

Yet not all in the animal kingdom are heterosexual.

 

What a ludicrous statement that not every species is heterosexual. Every animal species is heterosexual. Otherwise, they wouldn't be here.

 

Okay. Got it.

 

Great points. And I will add this:

I was in the military for over 30 years. After I got out and talked more openly with some service members, I found that some were gay/bisexual and some 'transgendered'. I was relatively astonished about that. And after learning that I worked near these people for many years... it adjusted my perception of who or how many LGBT people may be near/around us.

 

So you don't want to talk about it?

 

I do not think you understand my argument. I did not claim that "not every species is heterosexual", I said "not all in the animal kingdom are heterosexual". To elaborate, my argument is not that there is a species in which all of the species is homosexual, my argument is that there are some species where homosexuality has been observed to one degree or another.
http://www.yalescientific.org/2012/03/do-animals-exhibit-homosexuality/

 

I see what you mean now, thanks.

 

I'm done with what I believe can be accomplished here on this topic. So, I will bow out while holding to my views.

 

You talk on these threads to get things done?

 

Whatever I'm doing here... is finished. That is certain.

 

Pity, disagreement makes for the best discussion, i wish you the best

 

There are people out there who identify as animals, as rare as they are. People who feel they were always supposed to be a horse or a wolf. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherkin

Would you call them a horse if they wanted, or do you have a narrow view of the world?

[Hr][/hr]

I myself have no issue with transgender people. I have a huge issue with transtrenders.

If you don't have medically diagnosed gender dysphoria and haven't had a physical operation to correct this then I feel you are hijacking the legitimate community.

Like the millions who claim are gluten allergy when they have no such thing and are just jumping on the most recent fad.

 

Is it a medically accepted dysphoric condition whereas the treatment may include living their lives as such?

 

So its ok for a dude to try out for WNBA or women's soccer?

 

That's a different question. This thread is just about pronouns.

 

Not sure how or why you brought homosexuality and biology into it, Rob. I addressed the social necessity of simple identifiers in groups larger than a family.

 

We don't treat crazy people by pretending they're not crazy. This is a failure on the part of any enablers in the medical community, IMO. They CAN make mistakes, you know.