Should Trump Be Prosecuted?

If the FBI puts Trump in jail, there would be an upheaval like never seen since the Civil War. It's a really bad idea.

 

I see potential crimes, to wit:

“Extortion by officers or employees of the United States.” and “Coercion of political activity.” (his treatment of Zelensky, and the Senate didn't get him off the hook on the criminal side of this act).
Fraud ( during his presidency, Trump settled three lawsuits for fraud)
Contempt Of Congress (if this isn't a crime, it should be)
Illegal charity/embezzlement (spent charity funds for personal use, legal bills, etc )
Racketeering (his entire family is involved in many of his schemes, we're in RICO territory, no doubt)
Bank Fraud/finance crimes ( being investigated currently )
Money laundering ( these are being investigated )
Felony campaign finance violations/hush money defrauding the United STates
(named as 'individual-1' in the Cohen indictment )
Witness intimidation (disparaging comments on Vindman, Yovanovich, and others, during hearings--noting that the president has 65 million twitter followers, so a clear cut case of witness intimidation could easily made, per Yovanovich testimony on this)
Obstruction of justice (estimates are at least four clear cut counts per Mueller Report )
Perjury ( you don't have to be under oath to commit perjury to an FBI officer, he lied to Mueller, which was confirmed
by deputy campaign chairman Rick Gates, under oath. And it's a slam dunk he'll perjure again, if he is deposed, called to testify, etc).
Sexual Assault, Rape ( 25 women have accused him, some are bound to hold up in court )
Tax evasion (currently being investigated )
Ultra Vires ( calling a national emergency when there wasn't one )
Criminal Conspiracy ( handing classified info Russians in the oval office, though this is more of an impeachable offense, as president can declassify )

 

I can think of some, potentially anyway:

“Extortion by officers or employees of the United States.” and “Coercion of political activity.” (his treatment of Zelensky, and the Senate didn't get him off the hook on the criminal side of this act).
Fraud ( during his presidency, Trump settled three lawsuits for fraud)
Contempt Of Congress (if this isn't a crime, it should be)
Illegal charity/embezzlement (spent charity funds for personal use, legal bills, etc )
Racketeering (his entire family is involved in many of his schemes, we're in RICO territory, no doubt)
Bank Fraud/finance crimes ( being investigated currently )
Money laundering ( these are being investigated )
Felony campaign finance violations/hush money defrauding the United STates
(named as 'individual-1' in the Cohen indictment )
Witness intimidation (disparaging comments on Vindman, Yovanovich, and others, during hearings--noting that the president has 65 million twitter followers, so a clear cut case of witness intimidation could easily made, per Yovanovich testimony on this)
Obstruction of justice (estimates are at least four counts per Mueller Report )
Perjury ( you don't have to be under oath to commit purjury to an FBI officer, he lied to Mueller, which was confirmed
by deputy campaign chairman Rick Gates, under oath. And it's a slam dunk he'll perjure again, if he is deposed, called to testify, etc).
Sexual Assault, Rape ( 25 women have accused him, some are bound to hold up in court )
Tax evasion (currently being investigated )
Ultra Vires ( calling a national emergency when there wasn't one )
Criminal Conspiracy ( handing classified info Russians in the oval office, though this is more of an impeachable offense, as president can declassify )

 

Trump is currently being sued and the suit has been allowed to move forward.

You're making a mistake here. They can't be sued for what they did in their duties, but they CAN BE SUED for acts not done in their duties. This suit is about defamation, which is not a presidential duty. This very point was litigated.

You didn't know?

 

No there won't. His flock are paper tigers.

They'll get over it.

 

Absolutely he should be prosecuted. In particular, he should be prosecuted for obstruction of justice: witness tampering, as outlined in volume 2 of Mueller's report.

Failure to prosecute him for this will imply its OK for a President to influence witness testimony by dangling pardons.

After conviction, Biden should then commute his sentence. This eliminates any perception of punishing political opponents (as Trump so desperately wanted to do). The objective isn't to inflict pain on Trump, but to discourage future corrupt Presidents.

I also support the continued investigation of his taxes in New York, and prosecution if warranted.

 

Trump narrowly lost the election and he wasn't defeated by anything close to a landslide. He also had a cult of personality among Republicans who believe he was cheated out of the election, and are very angry about it. The reason Trump is claiming fraud happens isn't because he is trying to get the results overturned. He knows it over. He is trying to justify another run to the GOP. And so far Republicans are buying it. If things go badly for Trump, then he has a good chance of pulling a 2016 in 2024. I have a suspicion that Romney will try to run in 2024, but he may opt not to if Trump is viewed favorably then.

 

Anyone who thinks contempt of congress should be illegal doesn't believe in the constitution. The congress can stick it where the sun don't shine. Also, it's not obstruction of justice should hold no water unless there is an actual crime being obstructed. Otherwise it's just an excuse to abuse power. You definitely aren't a liberal. Maybe an authoritarian progressive?

 

I say no. Trump has a lot more criminal behavior than what he did in office.

The man's been getting away with **** for far too long. He NEEDS to go to jail.

I disagree, vehemently. It's not about 'inflicting pain on Trump' it's about JUSTICE.

Justice matters.

 

Congress could, if they wanted to, imprison you if you committed contempt, called 'inherit contempt. In his capacity as Senate President, William P. MacCracken, Jr., a lawyer and former Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Aeronautics who was charged with allowing clients to remove or rip up subpoenaed documents, was found guilty and sentenced to 10 days imprisonment. ---https://web.archive.org/web/20080421135250/http://www.ecommcode2.com/hoover/research/historicalmaterials/other/maccrack.htm

Your view is unconstitutional, because the constitution is about co-equal branches of government.

If congress cannot issue a lawful subpoena, then it can't conduct oversight.

If it can't conduct oversight, then it is no longer co-equal. That's unconstitutional.

You are simply wrong, as wrong as your attitude towards congress is wrong.

Obstruction of justice DOES NOT DEPEND on an associated crime, it is a crime UNTO itself.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/obstruction_of_justice#

Being liberal is about being for democracy, and 'liberal democracy' is what the constitution embraces.

If you can't understand that, you do not understand what it means to be an American.

'authoritarian progressive' is an oxymoron, there is no such thing.

 

No. The reason Trump is claiming fraud, well. He's been claiming that for over a year. The question is why?

He had a good suspicion out the outset that he would lose, so in case he did, he needed to poison the landscape. The reason he wants to do that is so he can convince state legislatures to slate in his electors, who will set aside the popular vote ( because it is not legit, so he says ) and the electors will pick him when they cast their ballots.

Now, why would he want to do that? Why? BECAUSE.... he's facing prosecution. If he can get a second term, it will run out the clock on the statute of limitations on his crimes.

But, that is what is happening, and it has NOTHING to do with 2024.

I sincerely doubt he is going to run in 2024

No way is Romney going to run. You think he is going to run in primaries, after he has already been the nominee before? I think the only candidate to have ever been the nominee twice and won on the second try was Nixon. He can try, but it won't be easy. Personally, I don't see it happening. But all of these candidates (Adlai Stevenson, Dewey, etc who were nominated more than once ) share something Romney lacks: Their campaigns occurred before the advent of the current primary and caucus system for choosing a nominee. These earlier nominees needed only to appeal to the narrow support of a political convention.

 

I seriously doubt that. Gun hobbies are expensive. Trump voters have families. Nobody is going to do anything. I think people prefer steady jobs and raising their families to throwing it all away as wacky warriors for Trump.

 

I mean if we can start jailing your democrat presidents would you sit back and let your kids future turn to ****?

 

My Democratic presidents? Carter, Clinton and Obama? What are you going to jail them for? What in the galaxy are you talking about?

 

not so sure, and Pence would do it in a heartbeat to be President for a month

plus if Trump did it, he would not have to transfer power, he could just leave

 

Its not co-equal if congress is supposed to oversee the executive branch. You just want a puppet president who does what the house tells it assuming the house is blue.

I know how it is used in practice. I was not arguing how it works. I simply argued that its too easy to abuse and should be limited to when there is a separate crime being committed that requires "justice". Otherwise, its just an excuse to abuse your power. Also, in reality, are not obstructing anything if you didn't do anything wrong.

Its called progressing to authoritrianism. Its the new left. They are progressives that forgot what liberalism is. Liberalism isn't entirely about democracy. Its more about individual autonomy. Democracy alone leads mob rule.
In progressive authoritarianism you are willing to use the government to reach your ideal view of what would be an ideal society. Progressive is about advancing society and conservatism is about keeping society as it is. Progressivism is not synonymous with liberalism. Authoritarian Progressives are also often the ones who pretend to be egalitarians when in fact they are identitarians.

 

Clinton lied and obstructed justice. Did you forget he was impeached for it?
We can always find something. Trust me. Especially when you live in your political bubble too long and you start getting your bubble study group thing going on will the other like minding progressives. Gotta love confirmation bias.

 

None of that makes any sense. I won't bother you with any more dumb requests for clarification.

 

Perhaps Trump should sue Andrew Weissmann for slander and libel.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/09/robert-mueller-investigation-andrew-weissmann-book/

 

none of the above rises to "crimes against humanity" though.

 

At least one of those mentioned is (sexual assault, including claims of sex with minors). However, what is not mentioned is that all wars of aggression are war crimes and crimes against humanity as are sanctions intended to harm innocent people. And the deliberate policies and admitted lies of Donald Trump that led to the intentional/encouraging spread of Covid-19 which caused death and injury (many permanent) are a crime against humanity.

 

One of the most interesting aspects of charging Trump after leaving office, is that it will also open up investigations of how those charges came about in the first place. I am not convinced that many democrats really want their own books opened up.

 

You just described the precise rationale behind all political prosecutions, entrapment and conjured up crimes.

 

You didn't list any crimes. I don't like Trump and have never voted for him, but that doesn't make him a criminal. Does our government act in the interest of the people? No. As long as Americans treat those of opposing beliefs as the enemy, they will continue to get away with their irresponsible handling of our hard earned tax dollar. On that issue, Trump is the lesser of evils.

 

So don't vote for him. I didn't!

For the sake of discussion, lets throw the book at him and make him spend the rest of his days in a cell with Hillary!

How does using our (Already abusive) justice system as a political weapon benefit society?