Should we get out of the Middle East?

Thank you and I actually value personal experiences very highly. That said none of what you have said goes with what I have read in my research. And your two articles you posted; one doesn’t work at all and the other one (the first one) has many supporting links embedded that also don’t work so it seems to me more of an opinion piece.

being your experience though I would be interested in what you may have to say about that book I suggested. Trust me that book isn’t right wing propaganda. It does talk of some of our misdeeds as well such as the Iranian airliner we shot down on accident, kind of funny that was never mentioned in the news when Iran accidentally shot down their own airliner recently.


You seem like a very good person though and I’m excited to have met you.

 

It might have been against the law for an American citizen to fight in a foreign army. I know that in 1923, many did leave to fight in Anatolia, and I know that Errol Flynn fought with Castro in Cuba in the 1950's. Did they lose their citizenship? I don't know.

Also did the Americans lose their citizenship if they fought for Nazi Germany? I'm saying this because my friends uncle did, so he could hold on to their lands and not have it confiscated by the Nazis. He came back minus a leg.

Anyone who tried to get off the Petro dollar, didn't survive very long. Saddam tried and that was the end of him. Gadaffi wanted to put Africa on a gold standard to raise their standard of living, and that was the end of him too.

When the president of Total Oil ignored our sanctions and told Putin he was going off the Petro dollar, that was the end of him also. He suffered a freak accident as his plane was leaving the Moscow airport.

I guess assassinations are our forte'.

​

How dare you not do what we say,
for we will always get our way

with sanctions, lies,
that's how we play​

while basking in hypocrisy
and calling it democracy - Jeannette

 

We actually screwed over Iraq a lot. He had a reason to hate us that’s for sure. The only thing we did to Iraq in my opinion that was justified was going after him for gassing his citizens, we should have finished the job then though.

 

He went into Kuwait and that, too, was a no-no. Bush the Elder got in and got out. Junior went for nation building.

 

Hemingway fought in Spain and as far as I know he was never threatened with the loss of his US citizenship. My mistake. Hemingway went there as a reporter.

 

"Inevitably, politics came up and the two questions I was most frequently asked were: "Why do Americans suddenly hate us?" and "Why does America help the Israelis kill Palestinians and steal their land.
They couldn't understand how such clever Americans be so easily manipulated by Israeli lobbies and our pro Israel MSM(1) nor can I."

I have to throw down the BS flag on this comment.

 

Interesting read on the next generation nuclear power.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/08/bill-gates-terrapower-is-building-next-generation-nuclear-power.html

 

Actually the US restrains Israel.

 

Hemmingway worked for a Canadian newspaper and was also in Anatolia during the war that gave rise to Attaturk.

 

At the same time the Kurds were being gassed in Turkey, and there was ne'er a mention or condemnation in the MSM.

 

It does not have to be a single currency. It can be a basket of currencies.

We are the reserve currency because Saudis and OPEC agreed to trade oil in USD.

 

I gave you numbers of how 10 Trillion was arrived at and the rational .. you were not able to refue a thing. didn't even address it .. just said NO NO NO here here is 2 Trillion - never did provide a source in the begining and when you finally did .. turned out was a complete misprepresentation on your part ...as they were looking at only a fraction of the "Total Pie"

Roundly and Soundly was your claim destroyed - now get over it - and adjust your perspective on the basis of newly aquired information !

 

My answer to you is somewhat nuanced.

I am the father of a son who served in the Marine Corps from 2005-2009. He fought in both Anbar Province, Iraq, and Helmand Province, Afghanistan. He nearly lost his life in Iraq, and he is a Purple Heart recipient.

Should we get out of the middle east? For me, that depends on what you mean. Should we close every naval and air base in the area? Should we end all military cooperation with all friendly middle eastern countries? To that, I would answer "no". I would argue that having a military presence in the area and military cooperation with friendly nations promotes stability and, of course, extends our influence.

But there is a difference between "having a presence" and engaging in unnecessary wars or fruitless nation building. I am not in favor of sending our young people to be wounded or to die except when it is absolutely necessary to defend the homeland or in defense of our most longstanding and closest allies.

I believe we should withdraw from Syria completely. ISIS was our fight, not the internal Syrian conflict.

I don't mind a small presence in Iraq to assist the Iraqis. We can provide training and assist with counter-terrorism operations. But that should be up to the Iraqis whether they want us there or not. If we are to remain there, it should only be with an unambiguous invitation of the Iraqi government. The Iraqis must also assent to our right of self defense. If they cannot approve of our forces retaliating for rocket attacks, we should simply get out.

We were right to punish the taliban and go after bin Laden and Al Qaeda. But trying to build a democracy in Afghanistan is like trying to build a beautiful statue out of sand. At this time in history, and for the foreseeable future, that is not possible. I support our complete withdrawal from Afghanistan, fully understanding that the country is going to be retaken by the taliban. We possess ample capability to respond to any threat to the homeland originating in Afghanistan. We have proven that.

Having been a "war parent", when debating with people who want the U.S. to be the world's policeman, I ask the question ...

Would you give up a son or daughter for this?

 

It's because the US economy is the world's dominate economy. For some reason leftists want to change that.

 

That’s very well written reply. Let your son know that people like him are valued every day by people like me. He took a road I feel I should have. Probably would have made me a better man.

I did however have a friend that I lost in the Iraq war. Don’t know if you remember the helicopter crash that killed a dozen or so marines but my friend was one of them. This world is small, I met one of the marines that helped clean up the wreckage some years later. But I feel if we give up on Iraq and it goes right back to point one his life would have been lost for nothing.

outside of that I agree with most of your comment. Very heart felt and like I said earlier, very well written.

 

By shutting down pipe lines, fracking, off shore drilling etc we are guaranteeing
the Importance of the Middle East for our energy needs. You can't have it both
ways with climate change and energy independence.

 

Put a fence around it and forget it ever existed.

 

No, it is because of the petro-dollar. As long as the world is mandated mandated to trade in UDS, the USD will be in demand. Its like selling drugs to addicts, - they'll buy it because they NEED it. They can't get through the day without it.

I have not heard "leftists" doing anything about it. Partisan politics cloud your judgment. CFR sets (=Council On Foreign Relations) our foreign policy, and both parties execute it in practically identical manner, and that has been the case for decades. All top politicians sit in the CFR agreeing in practically everything.

 

Thank you, you too seem like a fine and well informed person and I'm sure that there are many things on which we agree.

I'm sorry that the links I provided did not work.
These related links were working as of this morning: (1), (2)

I read a few reviews of the book you recommended, "The Twilight War", you recommended and even though I only spent a brief amount of time in N.W. Iran, that was almost 50 years ago and so much has changed over that period of time.

I know that brief book reviews are not a good measure by which to judge a book, I got the impression that it had more of a: "good guys vs bad guys" (US vs Iran) flavor to it than an impartial evaluation of the complex relations between the two countries.

I have read transcripts of recent Iranian presidents to the UN which are rarely published in America's pro Israel media because they sound so reasonable and articulate such an honest representation of Mid-East realities.

For a while, US - Iranian relations were thawing(3) until Israeli lobbies pressured Trump into abrogating the "Nuclear Deal" now most Americans have been brainwashed into mimicking fraudulent Zionist cliches like "World's greatest sponsor of terror" and "Iran threatened to wipe Israel off of the face of the earth"(4) both of which are false.

Since I have spent quite a bit of time in America's V.A. Hospitals with burned, mangled & mutilated Veterans of the Iraq War, my biggest fear is that AIPAC etc will succeed in pushing the US to war with Iran as it did with Iraq:

“QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.”

AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. Sun, Jan. 2003

Please don't mistake my resentment of Israeli lobbies & Israel's militant Right Wing as opposition to Israel in general.
I realize that there are innumerable peace seeking and humane Israelis who's simply want and deserve to be left to live in peace and prosper.

Hopefully, Israel's new government will make Israel a better ally and will be willing to make long overdue concessions for a just and durable peace with the Palestinians.

Thanks,



(1) “U.S. media coverage reveals a pro-Israel bias”
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2014/09/01/commentary/world-commentary/u-s-media-coverage-reveals-a-pro-israel-bias/#.WMLm5mafK_U

EXCERPT “Why does TV news look like a Netanyahu ad?” asked Chris McGreal of The Guardian on July 31, in his article on the “notoriously pro-Israel mainstream media in the U.S.”

Meanwhile, the Wall Street Journal dispelled any doubt about which side it was on. On Aug. 2-3, its Review section gave a two-page spread — “In Defense of Zionism” — against an oversize photo of a flag-raising ceremony in Israel, in 1948.”CONTINUED


(2) "AMERICAN TROOPS HERE TO DEFEND ISRAEL"
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5151907,00.html

EXCERPT "American tactical officers take to the stage, and say they're here to defend the State of Israel and its sovereignty as if they were fighting for their own country. They say they'll do anything to defend Israel. It's moving," he said."CONTINUED


(3) "Iran's President Rouhani Won't Stop Reaching Out to the American People"
https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...ont-stop-reaching-out-american-people/310856/


(4) "Israeli Minister Agrees Ahmadinejad Never Said Israel ‘Must Be Wiped Off the Map’"
https://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2...r-said-israel-must-be-wiped-off-the-map/?_r=0

 

Once you grow up and leave home you can go to the Mid East and find out its realities for yourself.

 

What is your connection, why have you spent so much time there?

 

I'm fascinated by archeology but as I mentioned in my earlier post, I was only in the Islamic Mid East (Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Iran etc) for 10 - 11 months when the '73 War broke out.

 

I think if I could take an extended trip it would be to that area. Human history there is so long and so basic to all of us.

 

Islamic nations have suffered many military defeats and surrendered to its enemies.
Some Islamic states and the Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank have always been at war with Israel. Israel has never achieved a final victory over any enemy since the creation of Israel so it is not surprising that undefeated enemies have neither surrendered or negotiated a peace.
That some peace agreements, as opposed to ceasefires, have been negotiated has been a rather odd and surprising development.

 

Most people don’t fully understand this. They are under the impression that we can be on renewables by 20 years and that if implemented the green new deal could actually work. That’s utterly impossible. I don’t think the people who advocate for this understands how much oil is in their life. Secondly their are no real options yet for long haul trucks, or small town folk who drive around a lot more and the current batteries won’t supply. Oil will still be around for quite some time. If you ban it you will create a large black market and likely weaken our economy to almost a halt. California is telling people not to charge their cars and not everyone even owns an electric car. What happens when they’re all on the power grid? We are way too far behind to even think about getting off of oil.

Stopping the drilling here will most definitely increase our interest in middle eastern oil