Society's right to regulate firearms

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Ronstar, Jun 3, 2015.

  1. OrlandoChuck

    OrlandoChuck Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    6,002
    Likes Received:
    1,313
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think you are pretty much describing the status quo. What is it you want to change?
     
  2. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    32,152
    Likes Received:
    21,323
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    when he finally learns that semi autos are no less "deadly" than full autos he will want to ban them too

    and I bet if he sees this-revolvers are going to be on his ban list

    [video=youtube;WzHG-ibZaKM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzHG-ibZaKM[/video]
     
  3. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    93,464
    Likes Received:
    14,678
    Trophy Points:
    113
    if semi-autos are just as deadly as full-autos, why does our military use full-autos?
     
  4. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    32,152
    Likes Received:
    21,323
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    1) to break contact

    2) to suppress movement


    tell us -based on your obvious expertise as a tactical firearms expert as I am-what makes a full auto so "deadly" that you don't trust civilians to own them even though civilian PDs have lots of them
     
  5. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As we have seen multiple times, so can a semi-automatic firearm. So can a motor vehicle. So can an improvised explosive device. So can a combination of bleach and ammonia. So can many countless everyday implements if they are used for that purpose. Specifically where does society draw the line?

    In the nation of France, terrorists brought their own weapons into the country to murder artists of the Charlie Hebdo magazine in response to their drawings of Mohammed. What is stopping them from doing the same here?
     
  6. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    93,464
    Likes Received:
    14,678
    Trophy Points:
    113
    if semi-auto firearms are just as dangerous as full-auto, why was full-auto invented?

    - - - Updated - - -

    civilians run away from crime, cops run towards it.

    that's why.
     
  7. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    32,152
    Likes Received:
    21,323
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    that's really stupid. cops normally choose WHEN they confront a violent criminal

    other civilians do not

    try again

    tell us about the tactical use of full automatic fire in a 20-30 round rifle vs semi auto

    you are still continuing to demonstrate that you know nothing about this subject and instead have watched too much RAMBO and thus were receptive to the idiocy Josh Sugarmann spewed (telling the press to confuse an ignorant public about Semi-auto and full auto)
     
  8. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    93,464
    Likes Received:
    14,678
    Trophy Points:
    113
    it is the job of cops to confront a dangerous criminal if they encounter one, even if it puts his life in serious jeapordy.

    that's why we give them high-powered rifles.

    they also have gone through extensive training and a psych exam.
     
  9. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    32,152
    Likes Received:
    21,323
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    another stupendous fail

    real assault rifles are not "high powered rifles" since they fire an intermediate cartridge.

    and I can outshoot 99% of the cops in the USA. My son routinely destroys cops in fast paced speed shooting events.
    last year, the OHIO POLICE OLYMPICS were in the greater Cincinnati area (I was eligible as a retired DOJ attorney but I didn't feel a need to embarrass a bunch of guys half my age since I am a professional level shooter). Well at the club where all the pistol events were held, we had our monthly "steel shoot" and since it was held between the two big police events, most of the cops in the POs participated. Lots of SWAT types,etc. well my then 16 year old son steps up with his Glock 34 and one cop says to the RSO "hey can that kid shoot" and the RSO said-he's gonna crush all of you and the only one who has a chance of beating him is his father. He was right. we took one/two and my son was several seconds faster than the fastest cop
     
  10. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2014
    Messages:
    17,034
    Likes Received:
    5,754
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    My dad gave me a .410 for my 12th birthday. It wasn't unusual for three or four of us kids to go back out to the wood and hunt squirrel and rabbit. Bagged my first deer at 14 using a Savage.
     
  11. BleedingHeadKen

    BleedingHeadKen Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    16,562
    Likes Received:
    1,276
    Trophy Points:
    113
    From where does "society" get rights? It's just a word, a conceptual label for an aggregate of individuals who may have some demographics in commons. And, by society, I think you mean "state", since society doesn't make rules or do anything at all.
     
  12. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,044
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Criminals could fairly easy get their hands on automatics, and in some cases have, but the reason they are not popular is for the simple reason that most criminals do not really need them.
     
  13. stjames1_53

    stjames1_53 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    12,736
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    0
    what about random drug tests? No? Go figure...............
    they have high-powered rifles so they can pick off as many indigents from a safe distance as they can. Oh, and so they can shoot targets like these:
    [​IMG]
    Cops never entire a building where there's been a shooting until after the smokes clears. They are not here to protect us from anyone, much less them
    most pigs lie, anyway...how about the cops that laughed about shooting a woman in the head at a rally? or how they didn't go into SandyHook until they were sure Lanza was dead.
    bah, false authority AND liars.

    - - - Updated - - -

    no , sir, he meant HIS society will dictate who gets what...that's what authoritarians live for, dictating
     
  14. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Fully automatic firearms were invented first. Semi-auto came next.
     
  15. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And who is confronted by dangerous criminals in the time it takes for police officers to arrive?

    They do not.

    As we have seen in the following months, that is blatantly incorrect. Police officers do not pass psychiatric examinations before being allowed onto the force. Anyone who feels the need to arrest members of the public for disrespecting them, or repeatedly kick a suspect in the head while they are being held on the ground, or slam a pregnant woman down on her stomach to induce a miscarriage, has neither passed, nor even been subjected to a psychiatric examination.
     
  16. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    32,152
    Likes Received:
    21,323
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    semi autos have an extra part! you are right. Ronstar doesn't know much about firearms as indicated by his comments. when your main motivation is dislike of the politics you perceive gun owners to have, your factual understanding of guns really doesn't matter much to you
     
  17. nimdabew

    nimdabew Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Messages:
    604
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    18
    No. This is incorrect. First, cops are civilians. Saying otherwise alludes to how little you know about the subject. We have a civilian government, that organizes and pays a civilian police force to police other fellow citizens.

    Second, I assume you are referring to gun fire in your post (if not, sorry). Prepared and trained citizens run towards gun fire, untrained and I'll equipped run away from it. I won't run away from a mass shooting incident when I have the knowledge, skills, ability, and equipment to stop it. You may be different.

    People often ask me what I would do in a mass shootingnincident. It is the same thing Marines do during an ambush. Identify the enemy, close with the enemy, destroy the enemy. The tools you use between the beginning if the OODA loop and the conclusion of the incident is entirely up your your knowledge, skills, and abilities. Nothing more, nothing less.

    OODA loop:

    http://www.artofmanliness.com/2014/09/15/ooda-loop/
     
  18. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    27,293
    Likes Received:
    4,346
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Actually full-auto was invented first. 1
     
  19. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    93,464
    Likes Received:
    14,678
    Trophy Points:
    113
    the Oxford dictionary and Merriam-Webster, disagree

    civilian:

    A person not in the armed services or the police force.
     
  20. nimdabew

    nimdabew Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Messages:
    604
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I will one up your copy paste and do one of my own. The GPO is the government printing office. They distrubute things like manuals, papers, and documents within the government.

    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/granule/USCODE-2011-title10/USCODE-2011-title10-subtitleA-partI-chap18


    CHAPTER 18 - MILITARY SUPPORT FOR CIVILIAN LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES (sections 371 - 382)

    Sec. 380 - Enhancement of cooperation with civilian law enforcement officials
     
  21. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    32,152
    Likes Received:
    21,323
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    that is a definition based on colloquial cop talk. the legal definition of a civilian is someone not in the military. I was a DOJ attorney. My ultimate boss was the AG. THE AG is the top law enforcement official in the USA. HE is a CIVILIAN government employee. The US Attorney for a judicial district is the highest ranking federal law enforcement officer in that district. He is a civilian employee. The Office of Personnel Management notes FBI special agents, Deputy US Marshals etc are CIVILIAN employees

    so your colloquial definition is not legally relevant. and that M-W definition also includes firefighters as "non-civilians"

    so as usual, your assertions are contrary to fact
     
  22. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    93,464
    Likes Received:
    14,678
    Trophy Points:
    113
    says who?
     
  23. OrlandoChuck

    OrlandoChuck Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    6,002
    Likes Received:
    1,313
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He cited the Webster dictionary
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civilian

    Full Definition of CIVILIAN

    1 a specialist in Roman or modern civil law
    2 one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force
     
  24. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Messages:
    21,732
    Likes Received:
    7,795
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Black's Law Dictionary, the choice most commonly used by judges, lawyers, and people writing and reading laws.

    http://thelawdictionary.org/civilian/

    What is CIVILIAN?


    One who is skilled or versed in the civil law. A doctor, professor, or student of the civil law. Also a private citizen, as distinguished from such as belong to the army and navy or (in England) the church.
     
  25. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    Messages:
    17,608
    Likes Received:
    2,043
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Society does have this power. We just need one more justice on the supreme court who doesn't base their rulings on facebook memes containing fake quotes.
     

Share This Page