Space Based Weaponry

Discussion in 'Science' started by ChrisL, Jul 26, 2017.

  1. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Be careful what you hope for.
     
  2. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Secret technology you were told about because _____________ .

    There are fantastic new weapons technologies off the public map that are so precise, deadly and with such massive potentials that there are ethical debates over whether actually build such systems on a large scale since anything we make it is just a matter of time before others have it too. Once put into operation on a large scale, the secrecy is lost.

    Is it REALLY a good idea to develop on a large scale systems that can kill any one person, anything, or everyone at a location, in a building, in a block or in an entire region essentially instantly with the push of a button - for which you better hope no one ever hacks into it, no one sinister every also gets it, and no one in the line of command or operation loses their mind? Such systems do exist on the small scale and have been successfully used on a small scale in combat theaters in the ME. Or then again maybe they don't.
     
  3. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Rhetoric of Life likes this.
  4. Skruddgemire

    Skruddgemire Well-Known Member

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    Good question. I know that my RC Sub needed a wire to float on the surface to act as an antenna since water blocks the RF signals so I'm not sure how the drone is getting commands.

    But whatever the method...I'm sure that encryption would be a part of the system.
     
  5. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is a stunning claim that spying is "an act of war." Repeatedly there has been complaints of the media or press exposing our spies in other countries. THEREFORE, we are "AT WAR" with those countries. Since Congress never declared war on those countries, such is an ILLEGAL an UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

    ALL SPIES, unless Congress has declared war on the country, are illegal and unconstitutional by the claim that spying is "an act of war."
     
  6. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    President Reagan's Star Wars was certainly a thing to contend with (as a concept during the cold war).
    This Star Wars programme would have targeted any hostile weaponry from smart armed satellites in the 1980's .
    Other than airborne threats, what can it do, beam down malware, be the start of what in future could be beaming to locations in an instant for surprise attacks given the Chinese have started to teleport photons into orbit to their satellite they sent up to test these kinds of sciences.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  7. Skruddgemire

    Skruddgemire Well-Known Member

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    Personally I've always been a fan of kinetic bombardment, the "Rods of God" as it were.

    No need for a warhead, no need for a payload, just the kinetic energy at impact would do all the damage and with the speed and extreme angle...would be hard as hell to intercept.

    And...since the Outer Space Treaty prevents weapons of mass destruction AND that the treaty defines WMD as nuclear, biological or chemical...such a weapons system would not be a violation of the treaty.

    Now I do know the issues behind such a system. It's hard to set a target accurately and it's going to be expensive to have enough satellites in place to drop weapons on targets...not to mention that there are a number of satellite-killing missiles out there which could pooch the deal...but it's still an interesting system.
     
  8. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    People will never stop using things that work well.
     
  9. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone still really believe that what they hope for matters?
     
  10. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not officially but it is believed so when some husband and wife or BF/GF were on the space station at the same time for a bit. I forget who they were but read about it somewhere on the internet so it must be true
     
  11. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I love this topic, so thank you Chris.

    But I might bring it to an early close. Sorry Chris.

    The budget of all nations must be a major factor. Though nations lie about military spending, we do have major hints.

    An early demise to a nation could result. It is best to let space be space and wage wars on Earth. I want no wars waged, but our own military is extremely gifted and funded. So to fear, means we fear ourselves first. I don't happen to fear our military.
     
  12. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Mass drivers. Used by the Centauri to conquer the Narn home world creating a nuclear winter for a long, long time.

    Just grab some piece of mass already in space and direct it at your target.
    Or manufacture your own mass bullets for standardization sake.

    Mass drivers are so devastating they were banned but, whose gonna enforce the ban?
    Certainly not the Vorlon.

    Moi :oldman:
    Y'gotta believe.

    r > g


    No Canada-1.jpg
    Stop Creeping
    :flagcanada:ism :rant:
    Across an immense, unguarded, ethereal border, Canadians, cool and unsympathetic,
    regard our America with envious eyes and slowly and surely draw their plans against us.

    Earth bound mass drivers. https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/b8f270...639791d/ss_stronger,-better,-faster:-the.html
    Stronger, better, faster: The Navy's beastly railgun is nearing completion

     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  13. Skruddgemire

    Skruddgemire Well-Known Member

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    Well you could go with Mass Drivers and cause whole bunches of damage like the Centauri did to the Narn Homeworld...but the problem with doing that here on Earth is that you do that level of damage...you're screwing yourself. The nuclear-like winter would bite you in the arse since it's going to be a global-level event. The advantage of the rods would be a more surgical strike. A lot of kinetic damage, confined in a nice small area. Blow the [smurf] out of the enemy base, but don't damage the local ecosystem.

    Besides...Delen and the Mimbari fleet was what scared me. Delen's Crowning Moment of Awesome came in the Episode "Severed Dreams" when she popped out of hyperspace behind Babylon 5.

    Delenn: This is Ambassador Delenn of the Minbari. Babylon 5 is under our protection. Withdraw or be destroyed!

    Earth Force Officer: Negative! We have authority here. Do not force us to engage your ship.

    Delenn: Why not? Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari Fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else!

    Then watching the invading force turning tail and running was priceless. You could almost imagine one of the Captains saying "Uhm...I think I left the gas on at home."
     
  14. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes. Great moment.
    But, I thought it was
    "The only human to destroy a Minbari warship is behind me. You are in front of me. I suggest you be elsewhere."
    Great moment regardless. Viva la revolucion!
    Remember the Black Star. :woot:

    Courtesy of the Battle of the Line. :salute:
    How many Minbari does it take to change a light bulb?
    Forget it, just when they're about to get the job done, they give up.


    How well confined could a kinetic rod's destruction be?
    Somehow I cannot imagine all that energy being more confined than an area of the State of Texas. And with global consequences. Like the diff between one volcanic eruption on climate and a swarm of volcanic eruptions or super biggie. How many rods guarantee a global nuclear winter?

    Thank you for great moments in Babylon 5 history.
    Vir Cotto passed away.


    Moi :oldman:

    r > g

    CanadianAlien-1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
  15. Skruddgemire

    Skruddgemire Well-Known Member

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    As confined as roughly 12 tons of TNT would be.

    When they did the Trinity nuclear device test, they shot off a 100 ton TNT blast as a baseline comparison. In the picture below, you can see the crater that 100 tons left behind (lower right corner) next to the blast damage of the 21 kiloton Trinity blast area.

    The rod's damage would be a little over 1/10th of the 100 ton crater.

    It's estimated that it would take 50 Hiroshima/Nagasaki sized detonations (50x21 kilotons) to cause nuclear winter. And that's mostly a result of the firestorms caused by the nuclear detonation (burning cities and the smoke thus produced).

    So...let's do the math. 50x21 nukes would be 1,050 kilotons. I know we have megaton weapons but the damage of one megaton bomb is not the same impact as 50 21 kiloton weapons scattered all over the world. If so we'd have had nuclear winter from the 10 megaton Ivy Mike detonation on Enewetak Atoll.

    So since the rod of god would be a 0.012 kiloton detonation...we would need 87,500 rods dropped to cause that level of devastation. But since we would not nor is it current policy to carpet bomb cities, we would be using such weapons surgically. Specifically targeting an enemy asset and dropping a rod on it.

    The Centauri used a mass driver on their Primus class of Battle Cruiser. That's a ship that's 1500 meters long, 1000 meters wide and 450 meters tall. What they were dropping on Narn was by rough estimates a rock that was around 100 meters in width. They don't say so I had to use a rough measurement based on the images I could find of them.

    We're talking a single impact of that being 12 MegaTons TNT which is 1 million times more powerful than a single rod. What hit Narn was dozens of such impacts.
     
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  16. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Japanese cities during WW II were essentially piles of wood kindling.

    1. Would the carbon/smoke released be similar w/respect to cities with less combustible material?
    2. Would a 1 megaton H-Bomb have produced as much "smoke" or less if such a weapon had been used - does more blast heat create more "smoke"?
    3. Would using 1 megaton weapons on military installations be comparable to the Nagasaki strike?
    4. Was the nuclear winter scenario discredited when it did not follow the burning of the oil fields during Gulf War I?
     
  17. Skruddgemire

    Skruddgemire Well-Known Member

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    Actually no. If anything...the smoke released would be far worse now that we live in a world of synthetic materials and hydrocarbon-based plastics. The wood from a burning Japanese WWII-era wooden city would have been akin to a forest fire. And we've had larger ones (Australia for one) that didn't have a lasting impact on the climate

    The thing about the nuclear winter scenario, is that no one weapon could cause it. The nuclear winter scenario was a parallel to the Mutually Assured Destruction scenario wherein everyone with nuclear weapons would be attacked in the war. That these are places around the world that are already targeted...and are simply awaiting the order to launch which in a paranoid world culture of the Cold War...everyone would likely have launched soon after the first one was launched.

    So...the nuclear winter would be caused by multiple cities burning all over the world.

    Hiroshima and Nagasaki were 20-21 kt detonations. The blast would be roughly 50 times greater. But again it's only one location. That alone wouldn't have a lasting a devastating effect on the planet.

    Again, the amount of damage caused by the release of soot and particulates were located in one area and didn't have a lasting impact outside of a localized area. Far short of what 50 detonations in 50 cities would have caused with the lingering, uncontrolled fires.

    We've seen more of an impact from multiple volcanoes going off at the same time.
     
  18. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Has any data been published regarding the amount of sun blocking material rising from a far more powerful H-Bomb vs. the early A-Bomb detonations?

    Did Carl Sagan predict that 'nuclear winter' would result from the massive oil fires during Gulf War I?
     
  19. Skruddgemire

    Skruddgemire Well-Known Member

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    Don't know if he did or not, but scientists did predict a Petroelum Winter scenario...but the effect was far less than predicted.

    As for the sun blocking material...yes a megaton fusion boosted fission (H-bomb) would kick up more debris than a Hiroshima standard fission device. However, the debris tossed up by a decent volcano can put up as much if not more than say...shot Ivy Mike (the first successful thermo-nuclear test).

    The effects of really nasty volcanoes have had an effect on climate, but it was usually limited to an off season. A cooler than normal summer, a harsher winter, but the effects have cleared off within a year to two years.
     
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  20. Skruddgemire

    Skruddgemire Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    Oh bollocks. I forgot to include the picture. Sorry.
     
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  21. ChrisL

    ChrisL Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea what you are talking about. Lol.
     
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  22. ChrisL

    ChrisL Well-Known Member

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    The powers that be will never let space be space. I'm sure everyone knows this. There is going to be a space arms war in the future, almost guaranteed.
     
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  23. Skruddgemire

    Skruddgemire Well-Known Member

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    Television show,from the 90's called Babylon 5.

    Was well written and well done.

    If you're curious, you,can watch all five seasons on the go90 app.
     
  24. ChrisL

    ChrisL Well-Known Member

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    I probably won't but thanks for the thought anyways. :D I do find space interesting, but I'm really not much into the sci fi types of shows.
     
  25. ChrisL

    ChrisL Well-Known Member

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    So, what do you think about this?

    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/04/space-war/521910/


    This week, thousands of space industry types from around the world are gathered in a resort in Colorado Springs, Colorado, for the the Space Symposium, a major annual conference. Attendees spend three days hearing from dozens of professionals in the commercial, civilian, and military space sectors, as well as leaders of space agencies from 15 countries. On Monday, some spent the day tweeting pictures of themselves grinning from inside a mockup of a Blue Origin crew capsule, which stood outside the hotel along with the company’s New Shepard rocket.

    On Tuesday, another set of tweets revealed a more serious side of the Space Symposium. Major General David Thompson, the vice commander of the U.S. Air Force Space Command, addressed a group of participants in a small ballroom:

    In no uncertain terms, space is a war fighting domain, not because we want it to be but because adversaries are threatening peaceful use

    — AF Space Command (@AFSpace) April 4, 2017



    “Our strategic competitors are actively threatening our space capabilities and we must be ready,” Thompson told the room, according to another tweet.

    Like others working in the U.S. military space sector, it’s Thompson’s job to be wary of actions by other spacefaring nations, and to remind the public of the country’s readiness in the face of a potential attack. Thompson’s comments may seem particularly ominous to a public for whom star wars are machinations of George Lucas, not Vladimir Putin. But his remarks are part of a recent shift in rhetoric among current and former U.S. military leaders that suggests they are increasingly concerned—or just want the public to be increasingly concerned—about threats from other space-faring nations.

    At the same conference, Mike Rogers, a Republican congressman from Alabama, said the U.S. Air Force should create a specialized, independent group to handle military operations in orbit. “We have to acknowledge that the national-security space structure is broken,” he said.

    Last week, Navy Vice Admiral Charles Richard, the deputy commander of U.S. Strategic Command, said during a conference in Washington, D.C., that “while we’re not at war in space, I don’t think we can say we’re exactly at peace, either.”

    “Major power competition is back on the table in a way that we have not seen in the world for perhaps 15 or 20 years,” he said.
     
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