Tariffs are not a meaningful negotiating tool

The value in an alliance is balance, what you get for what you give. Trump is trying to restore some balance. We are their partners as well, don't they risk alienating us if the deal is unfair from our point of view?

 

Yes and we meaning trump voters want it to stay that way

Depending on china for our basic needs is not healthy

 

I didn't respond to 17 because I had no reason to disagree with it.

And our trading partners do the same. However, we import more than we export. The difference is wealth that is transferring from our economy to another. Why did I have to explain that to you.

It is a positive opinion. Hope it happens.

Better go back to post 17 and see the dominance of the U.S. in the world economy. We are the largest customer and potential customer on the planet. You think the world will stop trading with us. I don't. Difference of opinion.

We need to retrieve the manufacturing we have lost over decades of outsourcing. Perhaps I forgot to say that earlier. If so, I apologize.

 

They aren't your friends in business.
They are your competitors and rivals.

 

So, your solution as a Trump fan is to raise the price of all consumer goods because we are paying so little for them.

That sure sounds like one of Trump's ideas.

I'm betting you voted for Trump. You sound like one of his voters.

 

If the product is made in America instead of china its better for our economy

 

Theoretically, if we lived in a vacuum. But that is what you and Trump want, isolate America, place us in a vacuum. That simply is not possible, but Trump is going to create a lot of heartache trying to do that.

Far more on the trade deficit and how it affects us, please check out this article.

http://politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/trade-deficit-is-a-misnomer.531537/

 

Yes, that is exactly what Trump thinks, too. As a consequence, his liberal, protectionist tariffs that will severely harm our economy and produce negative results.

 

Please see http://politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/trade-deficit-is-a-misnomer.531537/

I think nations do not respond well to threats. It is no secret that Trump is using tariffs as a threat, bargain or the tariffs will be imposed.Trump is very naive if he thinks he will get results with threats. It seems the EU's top trade official agrees with me.

The EU's top trade official has warned, however, that the 28-nation bloc would not enter talks on easing commercial tension until Washington dropped any threat to hit Europe with punitive measures.

In April, EU Trade Commissioner Cecilia Malmstrom said she had "not started to negotiate anything" with the US and would not do so until an "unconditional and permanent" exemption to the tariffs was granted.

"We are under no circumstances negotiating anything under pressure, under threat," she said.

Why? See http://politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/trade-deficit-is-a-misnomer.531537/ before replying. The fact is our manufacturing and our economy is doing quite well. How much turmoil Trump's tariffs will cause is anyone's guess, but it will be considerable.

 

Which is why he is in charge of them and you are not.

It's a competitive world.
If you don't think so, you are wrong.

I certainly agree that the outcomes are not entirely predictable.
However on economics, Trump is about as credible a president as America has ever seen.
In a different league to what your or any other country is used to.
If your boat is being rocked...good.
It needs to be.

The EU is a bunch of power mad dicks. They attempt to bully. If you do not stand against them, you are a fool.
Their goal and aim is to destroy you. Plain and simple.
And the people in power there, personally lose nothing. They do not give a **** about their people's best interests at all. Only their goal.
Which is take what you have for themselves and destroy your pre-eminence for ever.
Don't ever forget that.
They are not your friends at all. They are your enemies.
They wish you ill and are machinating towards that end.

 

Tariffs might not be, but the threat of tariffs sure can. He already has several nations talking of making trade fairer to get from having tariffs put on them. That one trade deal with S. Korea did just what Trump wanted from S. Korea, a cut in their steel output to the U.S.

 

Trump is where he is because liberals couldn't believe that many people could possibly be stupid enough to vote for him, so we didn't bother . We've yet again been beaten with Barnum's old stick and I think the lesson will be learned, at least for a decade or two. Trump will be gone by 2020 at the latest.

And in the meantime you would do well to realize that while foreign nations have no reason to be nice to us we are not presently at war with all of them either. Not everybody in the world takes the conservative's basic attitude that we all positively, personally and passionately hate each other every minute of every day. Man is a wolf to man indeed, never doubt it, but wolves survive mainly because they are willing to stop fighting long enough to hunt as a pack. Similarly, nations frequently ally with each other and will generally work together amicably as long as it is in their interests which, the world being as it is, is most of the time. You are right to understand that no nation should ever trust another but it is also up to us to use that distrust to keep the peace, not to foment personal and national attitudes that support more war

 

You won't always have the choice.
The EU won't give it you.

They want war.

Fight it now or let them grow strong first.

When someone seeks to fight you, you will have to fight them.
You cannot avoid all wars. Your enemies will not let you.

The EU is not your friend and it is not neutral towards America either.
They are out to get you. Appeasement doesn't prevent wars. It encourages them.
Bully does not respect the weak. Bully preys on them.

The only way to curb a bully is to be the bigger bully.
And that is what they think they are doing to you.

Choose your side.


You think the EU feels that co-operating with America is in it's best interests.
How far you are from the truth.

It is it's oft stated goal to destroy you. A rallying flag that unites them.
It's very purpose and reason for being.
It's common goal and America's common goal are in direct opposition.

Do not ever forget this.
It would be your mistake to do so.

 

No one is demanding isolation

Liberals are all about absolutes

Its either free trade or isolation with them

They reject any rational solution such as balanced trade

 

It is an opinion I don't share.

That's her call.

See my first response above.

 

I think it just makes people angry when they begin to lose them. Unfortunately, people don't really know what is good for them. A stronger manufacturing sector will more than make up for the price imported Chinese junk.

 

I understand both sides of argument, Free trade vs protectionism.
And I find it hard to say which is best.

I think there is room to switch from one to the other as circumstances dictate.
But I cannot evaluate the outcomes either way. I cannot predict them. And with the benefit of hindsight I still cannot evaluate them.

What I do believe is that if you are willing to go through with it. If you are willing to roll that dice, you have a negotiating advantage against someone who is not.

 

South Korea is dependent upon the U.S. for its very survival. The deal with S.K. is much like parents making a deal with their child. In sixteen months, the great deal-maker has made one trade agreement, the one with S.K. That is why he is resorting to threats.

Nations don't respond well to threats. It seems the EU's top trade official agrees with me.

The EU's top trade official has warned, however, that the 28-nation bloc would not enter talks on easing commercial tension until Washington dropped any threat to hit Europe with punitive measures.

In April, EU Trade Commissioner Cecilia Malmstrom said she had "not started to negotiate anything" with the US and would not do so until an "unconditional and permanent" exemption to the tariffs was granted.

"We are under no circumstances negotiating anything under pressure, under threat," she said.

 

Good. No one wants to negotiate with the EU.
They have no mandate to rule.
It's an anti democratic institution.

Side line them. Deal direct.
No need to make deals with them at all.

If they don't want to make deals, no problem. Their loss of authority is the worlds gain.

 

The imposition of tariffs is not protectionism. Free trade still exists. It is simply more expensive than it was before. I think protectionism is bad. I think tariffs are a great solution to the unfair trade we have today.

 

You did read the part where she is EU's top trade official. You are burying your head in the sand. Trump won't even defend his tariff policy. That's how bad it is.

So you don't think his tariffs will cause disruptions in the free trade arrangements. That opinion is quite remarkable. There is that sand thing again.

So you think massive, across-the-broad price increases from T-shirts to computer equipment will be good for our economy? You think inflation caused by price increases will be a good thing?

Did you vote for Trump?

 

This is why tariffs are not a meaningful negotiating tool.

Unless the exemption is extended, or made permanent, the tariffs could spark a new trade fight between Europe and America, hurting business, the economy and jobs.

"We continue to be in constant contact with the US administration," a spokesperson for the European Commission said this week. "We expect a permanent and unconditional exemption from the US tariffs."

If it doesn't get want it wants, the European Union stands ready to retaliate. It has already published a list of hundreds of American products that it could target if Trump moves forward with the tariffs. The list runs to 10 pages and includes US cigarettes, sweetcorn, ovens, sailboats, lipstick and stainless steel sinks.

The response from Europe could come within days.

"Our expectation remains to be exempted, but we are ready if necessary," said the Commission spokesperson.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/04/27/news/economy/us-tariffs-eu-response/index.html

If Trump doesn't back down, investors have one day to get their money out of stocks. Traders are not looking forward to Monday, the 30th.

 

There may be hope yet that Trump will realize the stupidity of his tariffs.

CNBC reports, "The May 1 deadline for steel and aluminum tariff exemptions for U.S. allies is likely to be extended, according to sources who have been in discussions with the Trump administration."

But, there is something strange about this report. It is possible Trump is playing games again. He goes from controversy to controversy, changing his mind, changing it back, saying one thing while his staff says something else. This is how he runs the White House. It is his management style.

Of course, nearly everyone agrees his management style sucks. That accounts for the 45% turnover rate in the White House. Some of his management choices don't even make to their first day before they quit.

As for the exemptions, the White House, the Commerce Department and the National Security Council did not respond to requests for comment before publication. Of course.

My guess, the leak came from Trump himself. He still thinks he is the host of a reality show. It is his management style.

 

I disagree with her regardless of who she is. The EU is not in the business of looking after American interests. And EU countries use tariffs as well. It is politics.

There is no need at all for trade agreements. So far they have been against American interests.

I would like to see tariffs replace income tax completely. That way taxation becomes optional and American manufacture gets a boost.

No. I don't vote. I learned long ago that voting never fixes the government or brings it under control. Both parties say different things but they do the same things when in power.

 

While i word for word agree with your above post,
this one i do not.

It's protectionism.
The idea is to make foreign steel less competitive vs domestic steel.
To protect that vested interest.

Free Trade is tariff free trade..