Tesla Price War??

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by WillReadmore, Jan 22, 2023.

  1. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    LOL - "pipe dream" is when it DOESN'T happen.
     
  2. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Expense has never been an issue for me; I drive a Lexus after all.
    My criticism has been that the EV is a step backward in terms of transportation capability.
     
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  3. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    That is correct. You have understood my meaning.
     
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  4. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  5. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  6. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    Your lack of understanding the efficiency of electrical motors over an ICE is profound. Reality check, EVs are here to stay.
     
  7. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Less range, less versatility, less capability against heat/cold. If the EV lasts at all, it will be as a local runabout only.
     
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  8. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    FYI, an ICE in Alaska needs electrical heaters for their oil pans. They also overheat often.

    This is already done.
     
  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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  10. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    Tesla just posted their highest quarterly profits EVER
     
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  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The average daily driving distance in the US is between 30 and 40 miles.

    For long distance driving, the charging station expansion is progressing rapidly while charging times are reducing rapidly and range is increasing as battery chemistry improves.

    The idea that a Tesla built today is the limit of what an EV can do is ridiculous.

    I just don't believe you have made any argument concerning the future of EVs. All you've done is a relatively negative view of EVs today, ignoring aspects such as dollars per mile, maintenance, cleanliness in emissions and in garages, performance, etc.
     
  12. Pred

    Pred Well-Known Member

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    The price war has begun because there’s real competition in the lower segment now. KIA and Hyundai have nice options. Toyota is releasing the dogs this year. Their various Prime models are the best of both worlds. Enough charge for a typical commute and you can still drive it cross country without prep-planning your whole trip. The Mustang is nice. Tesla has the cool tech gadgetry, but that doesn’t necessarily translate to mass market. Their fit and finish is still ****.

    Most people want a car to be a car, not a smart phone on wheels;). Once the entire populace has grown up on devices, who knows what people may want in a vehicle. Or when they’re driving themselves, the ergonomics can change, but that’s now further into the future than most thought.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2023
  13. Gdawg007

    Gdawg007 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure about the profit per car in dollars. This is a list of margins by car maker.

    Top automakers by operating margin (companiesmarketcap.com)

    Tesla's problem is demand for their product is falling. You don't have to buy a Tesla to get an EV with good range anymore. Tesla will have to adjust and I'm sure it will. But at the end of the day, being the most profitable doesn't mean much. Look at number 1 on that list. Ferrari. What does that mean? Nothing much given the average human on this planet can't afford one. It's nice for Ferrari though, I guess.
     
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  14. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Fargo, ND has oil pan heaters at all parking meters. This is not new news. The future of the EV is strictly limited to local runabout.
     
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  15. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    As you wish.:roll:
     
  16. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm not going to try to reason you out of a position you did not reason yourself into. In the 30-40 mile range the EV is a viable option.
     
  17. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe you can ignore Tesla's profit per vehicle that easily.

    As we just saw, by a slight reduction in profit per vehicle their sales went through the roof. And, they are still way ahead of other manufacturers in profit per vehicle, with the nearest competitor being BYD.

    I do believe prices will continue to fall. I use the example of large flat screen TVs. It took a while to pay off engineering investments, but prices came down to address the huge number not willing to spend many thousands on a snazzy TV.

    Your point on operating margin is definitely interesting. I don't understand that measure well.

    I wonder what factors affect operating margin. For example, Tesla sells direct to the customer while Ford and others sell through dealerships that add their own costs and profit, move unsold product to auction, and otherwise perturb sales figures.

    Dealerships have proven to be a problem for some manufacturers.

    Also, Ferrari leading the way is quite unimpressive, as I don't believe Ferrari has anywhere to go but down. Relatively standard EVs can produce Ferrari like performance. So, what are they left to sell? Memories?

    I know Chevy thinks they can sell an EV version of their Corvette. Like making an EV Hummer, it just doesn't make sense to me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2023
  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Let me emphasize - thanks for the tip on operating margin. I have some reading to do!
     
  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    There are EVs that achieve 10X that.
     
  21. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    If conditions are optimal, and then a lengthy recharge is required.
     
  22. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    True. Right now, you get 200 miles in 15 minutes charge time.

    For most people, I think 300 miles of driving in a day is a good day of driving.

    Of course, my wife and I have driven the 800 miles from our Seattle place to our SF area place in a day.

    That would take a couple significant recharges for sure, as it includes the Siskiyou mountains.

    Of course, we shouldn't be driving the nearly 14 hrs plus food stops in one shot anyway. Plus, it takes a couple gas stops in our Rav4 hybrid.
     
  23. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Companies like Ford and Volkswagen are trying to end the electric car. That's why they're are garbage. That's why they resurrect dead models. They don't want to sour people in real f150s or GMC Sierras.

    So they did hummer out of moth balls to create a pice of crap because hummer was already unpopular as with lightening.

    I think it's a preemptive strike to prevent Chinese cars from entering our market.
     
  24. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    B.S.
     
  25. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    new battery tech ready to drop and lots of old cars and they are not selling?
     

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