Texas cop shoots and kills Black man during mental health check

I agree we need to wait, the video released has been indicated it was edited. That said, it is incidents like these, where I am completely against the police having immunity doing their jobs.

 

Seems a lot of these "mental health checks" go south. And what does it boil down to? What else, MONEY! "Mental health services" is another issue that gets a lot of lip-service from politicians and little else. @ AlpinLuke noted that in Italy both an ambulance AND police respond, something the states here should emulate, but noooo...that costs MONEY. Just dump it on the police's back and hope for the best

 

This wouldn't be a story if a black man was the shooter or if the cop shot a white man.

 

I think you're oversimplifying this. It is not a matter of blaming someone. It is a matter of public safety. If our citizens cannot call for help and reasonably expect to be satisfied with the outcome provided by the services that they pay for then we have a problem, don't we?

I view an example like this thread as an issue that represents a problem that needs to be fixed. I do not view it as an example of folks needing to get over it.

Put yourself in that family's position. Perhaps as the son. What would you have done if your crazy dad was having what I assume was another episode of acting out. Hindsight being 20/20, would you have clocked him in the temple maybe? Tried to wrestle him into a choke hold? Would you have been able to call neighbors or family for more help? Not everyone can call neighbors or family for more help.

One of the predominate themes I've encountered in my industry since the BP Texas City explosion has been a massive focus on safety issues. Corporate cultural overload. Massive indoctrination methods. Every meeting beginning with a mandatory safety topic. Once a week a dedicated safety meeting. All of it related to personnel safety.

Of course this got a bit ridiculous at times. For example one of the talking points at one point became an initiative to require anyone using the stairs to maintain contact with the hand rail. And the company encouraged everyone who observed anyone not using the handrail to speak up - you might save a life!

However, as adamantly I was opposed to what I viewed as a largely inapplicable waste of my personal time: after about 3 years of this overload I became pretty hyper attentive to personal injury risk assessments.

So that is one easy thing that our police could do, if they don't do it already. Overload the messaging about avoiding the use of lethal force. It will sink in. And where was his backup? One guy sent to a potential domestic violence situation. I think all officers should demand dual patrols again. You never see an old school Adam 12 cop car these days. Never anyone riding shotgun. That's crazy and it's part of the recipe that has us here in this thread discussing it.

Recently here we had a ballot option to vote on equal pay for the FD vs the PD. I voted against it. I'd reconsider my vote if we brought back Squad 54 type units to support the police on calls like the one in this thread.

If a pair of guys from an FD EMT unit and a pair of cops had showed up at that call that day then more than likely that guy would still be alive. Pretty simple.

 

Do you not get math?

There's over a million police/public interactions per day.

Saying this was one in a million was probably an overestimate. This situation is probably actually a lot less likely than that. Unless you can show the rate at which mental health checks end up with the police shooting someone....guessing you can't. All the nonsense you posted has nothing to do with this case. So 1 in 5 have a mental illness....that has nothing to do with the rate at which police shoot people (it's astronomically low despite what the leftist know it alls say).

Sadly, you seem to have commented without being very well informed on the issue (despite you clearly thinking otherwise).

 

You really nailed one, if not the, root cause here. The problem in this case clearly goes back to the Regan administration unilaterally excising government funding for any support of the mentally ill. I think maybe he and Maggie sat down together over tea one day, and Captain America and the Iron Maiden had a casual discussion about how to deal with funding for mental institutions. "Oh my Lord, Ron", she said. "How are we to be bothered with anyone not bright enough to keep their chin up!" "Well gosh darn it Maggie!", he replied, "You've cleared my thoughts on this one! By golly I'm going to end it. We'll not be paying for services for people that can't keep calm and carry on!"

 

That's part of the problem. People don't know these things. I certainly didn't until I started working at my job. These things need to be advertised more. Unfortunately many such places don't have the funding to do wide spread advertising.

I would not want to give use of force discretion to those calling for help. More often than not the person calling don't always know what they see or hear. Tamir Rice for example was killed by a cop because everyone believed he had a gun. That is why the cops were called. The kid pointed it at the cops and the cops shot him. He was a kid. And his gun was just a toy that looked exactly like a real gun. No, a better long term solution would be to educate the populace, and advertise those types of companies that I talked about. Make people be aware that 911 isn't always the best answer to every situation. That 911 should only be called for extreme emergencies. Fire, physical injuries, actual crimes. For example I remember a time when schools handled kids getting into fights by calling the parents and using after school detention. Now a days cops are called. Idiocy imo.

And while it would be nice if people bonded with their immediate community that is actually unrealistic. Take NYC for example. 8.3 million people living there. 27 thousand people per sq mile. No one can bond that much. And then you have your introverts (like me) who simply can't stand being around people, much less bond with people.

 

A mental help professional cannot stop a person determined for violence from committing it and getting killed because of it.

strange people are so ignorant they believe that’s a thing lol

 

Without trying to be sarcastic I don't think the police are going to change standard operating procedure their first job is going to be to defend themselves, with deadly force.

That's kinda in the job description.

No offense but if my neighbor called me to physically manhandle somebody back into submission without injuring them I would remind them that that's not in my neighborhood job description & I'd suggest that they call the cops.

Once you make the call then it's their decision on how to handle it not yours that's why you made the call in the first place, **** got outa hand.

 

And that is in the ideal world but this wasn't the ideal world so they call for the forlorn hope, the local police because there is no alternative. And you see that again and again in such cases.

 

It was a combination of both, it was actually JFK who started the reform of the mental health system, inspired by the horrific fate of his sister Rose. Movies like 'One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest' didn't help.

 

Because you calls the cops when someone needs to be subdued and dominated, it's already gone past the stage where there is any alternative.

 

You're assuming they had those resources available or that they had the entire story?

 

Can you believe that the dead guys family who called for help in the first place now want the officer arrested;

Family of man fatally shot by Texas officer push for his arrest | Fox News

How ungrateful and hypocritical can people be?

 

It baffles me that people don't understand this. I guess maybe I should say it baffles me that people refuse to acknowledge that this is how the system works.

I could imagine myself moving into a new neighborhood and have my neighbor tell me

"oh yeah by the way my 26 year old brother occasionally gets off his meds and starts running around with a knife, its YOUR job to subdue him, can I have your cell #?"

"Sure, it's a short one, 9-1-1"

 

"Mentally ill people can't be persuaded and are INCREDIBLY violent and resistant to pain, they fight like Satan with many actually wanting to commit suicide by cop."
This blanket statement regarding the mentally ill is false. Most mentally ill folks are not "INCREDIBLY" violent and resistant to pain. Where do you get your information? And they fight like satan?! You really do tickle me. It's people like you who discourage people from getting the help they because they don't want to be labeled as psychopaths. There are many different types of mental illness including depression and anxiety which many folks will experience during their lifetime. That doesn't make them psychopaths.

 

What have they got to be grateful about? Your posts get weirder and weirder!

 

We need to look at the word "reasonable" that you used above. It is not reasonable to hold the authorities to perfection. Situations escalate, sometimes deadly force is required in the judgement of the authorities. To expect that the government/authorities are the magical perfect panacea to all of societies issues is ridiculous. To hold the authorities to standards that we don't even hold ourselves/society to is hypocritical. For example, a large portion of our society holds criminals in higher regard than law enforcement officers. Society allows criminals to run rampant in our society (witness the massive upswing in violent crime and murders in Harris County due to the early release of violent criminals), yet LEOs have to be absolutely perfect. This is leading us to a very bad place where the criminals have the upper hand. I completely support LEOs because they are what stand between me and a society ruled by tooth and claw.

Have you considered changing careers and becoming a policeman?

I would accept that the world is not perfect. If I call someone to help, I cannot hold them to a standard of "perfection." Hindsight is 20/20, but the officer, in the heat of the moment, doesn't have that luxury.

Agree 100% about dual patrols. I would not mind my taxes being raised to pay for that.

 

That's not remotely accurate.

 

You don't see the problems with locking up non-criminals against their will in asylums? It was overdue that President Reagan ended that.

 

I don't assume ... I start from the OP. If the OP is assuming ... this thread is meaningless.

 

20 years of personal experience and hundreds cases. Believe me, once you have to use force on mentally ill people they put up a struggle you wouldn't believe.

 

They called the police for help because they couldn't deal with their mentally ill relative and then complain when they do what's necessary.

 

And that is the endless dilemma, balance the rights of the individual against those of wider society,

 

They should be grateful that the husband and father is dead? As I already wrote, your posts get weirder and weirder! So if the family cut out the middle man and killed him themselves, that would be ok?