The Bible

Far fetched, yes. You got a better theory?

Okay, so now we have eliminated 1) "God" and 2) "it came from nothing."

May I deduce from your answer that it came from something? If so, what difference does it make if I call it God and you call it a mackerel? Either is worthy of awe if not necessarily praise. (I won't praise Him until birth defects and child abuse are eliminated.)

 

I do agree with most of this.

As far as I know, physicists don't have definitive answers about what happened until some small increment of time beyond time zero.

What happened does mean something. The thing is, our physics breaks down when pushed back that far. So, there is something we do not know about physics. How important is that? Well, it's hard to tell, but it could change how we look at things today. Maybe we'll find a more general theory of which the theory of relativity is a special case.

If you want to believe "God did it" when it comes to the big bang, I'm actually not to worried about that - at least until that answer is used to attack, demean or replace science and science education.

I'm going to stick with "I don't know" - because I don't know. Specifically, when I don't see answers to questions I don't think, "Well, God must have done that."

I really don't believe humans are smart enough and powerful enough to have all the answers. And, I don't see that as evidence of there being a God. We're just not that smart.

 

None of us know nor really claim to know. But you can theorize. Based on what you know about the way the physical world works, what is your hypothesis?

My current belief is that the ancients sat and pondered and debated all these questions we are debating here. Some of them, who appeared and were acknowledged the wisest in the clan, came to the exact same conclusion you do: we are not smart enough to figure this out, and so when we do, we are treading in the domain of what they pleased to call the creator. Trying to "get to the bottom of it" from a rational standpoint (eating of the tree of knowledge) is a waste of time, is arrogant, and will drive us insane, not to mention cause us to neglect our families and wheatfields. It is therefore best left alone. It's a mystery. My own church calls these questions exactly that: "mysteries." I sometimes think it's a copout, but it may be that that's the most reasonable thing to call them. We know there is a creator because nothing comes from nothing, except the creator, LOL.

 

I'm a staunchly "I don't know" kind of guy when it comes to the beginning of the universe. We just don't have much evidence of what's "outside" our universe. And, I've heard physicists say that we'd need a machine that is a million times the power of the CERN superconducting supercollider to really study what's wrong with our current physics. I hope that's not the case, as that's just not going to happen for a VERY long time.

I agree with what you say about the Eden allegory. To me, it points to the fatal flaw in humans, our "original sin", being arrogance - or at least closely related to that.

So, I agree with your church about the origin of the universe being a mystery.

 

Where do you get that 13 billion year figure from? Everyone knows that Yahweh created the entire universe just 5,779 years ago. Don't you know that at the stars will fall to the Earth? They are those tiny lights you see in the sky at night.

 

Mmm.. What is ' nothing'?

 

The Cyclic Model?

 

Didn't you just give an example of nothing?

 

This:

 

I thought it was 4000 years BC? You're 239 years off?!?

 

The Bible doesn't say how old the earth is. It does debunk the narrative that nothing X nobody = everything.

 

Yes it does. Someone calculated it using the begots and Moses and stuff. It's around 4000BC.
That's the trouble with you people, you keep shifting the goalposts.

 

On the cosmic scale *nothing* would be the absence of atoms. There could be all kinds of elemental particles flittering around but they would be very hard to detect without special equipment. Once hydrogen atoms are formed then there is something easily detected and it evolves into everything else over time. since we don't know what the universal is or how large it is we don't know what is beyond our observable universe. It could be unlimited, in which case atoms have completely displaced nothing.

The question is if there is nothing beyond the observable universe why not? And if there is nothing there will the observable universe eventually dilute itself to the point where it is almost undetectable? That is the problem with the Big Bang theory because it claims that everything came from just one glob of stuff that exploded and is filling the void where nothing had existed. If that is true then out into the void in all directions there is nothing at all. The guy never thought about that.

 

Here is some background info = https://www.etymonline.com/word/corn

 

'Someone', huh? One man's opinion now represents the Bible and all Christians?

 

According to the people who push the fairy tale it is the year 5779, from the beginning of the universe. And according to them it will all end 221 years from now so don't buy any green bananas because they won't have time to ripen.

 

That's not nothing. It's an answer to my question. On a computer. That involved many actions. Is there any real understanding of 'nothing'.

https://www.livescience.com/28132-what-is-nothing-physicists-debate.html

 

Well, Ussher did use the Bible to calculate his date.

 

I know this. I have to check all my food as I'm allergic to wheat and any food containing it.

 

If the maths right you gotta stick with it. Unless you're saying the good book's not so good?

 

Oh, OK, I get it. You're counting forwards and I'm counting backwards.That will screw up the numbers.

 

Do you believe in the Big Bang theory?

 

I'm open-minded. Science will eventually show the truth. We just do not know for sure. One thing we are told is that 'nothing comes from nothing' then where does god come from.
But what is 'nothing'? We look into an empty space and say there's nothing there. But although we do not see them there are many things not visible to the eye. Science is limited by what is proven at the moment. As its boundaries expand who knows what we will discover. 3-4000 years ago stars were just lights in the dome of the earth. Now we know they are suns around which worlds that could contain life exist. So are those 'UFO's' mentioned in ancient books and religions real?

 

Here is the problem with the Big Bang Theory. According to it everything was in one ball and then it exploded. So suppose the Earth represents that original big ball. Since everything was in it there was nothing outside of it. The void was completely empty so there was nothing in existence except what was in the ball, represented by the Earth for example. Then the ball exploded and stuff flew in all directions into the void of nothing.

The result is that if you believe in the Big Bang Theory, a Catholic theory of creation, then you must believe that stuff from the Big Bang is still moving into the area of nothing. So nothing must exist. And since there was only a small amount of something in comparison to the vast void of nothing where did the original something come from that created the ball that went bang? No matter how large the original ball was it would have still been insignificant in size compared to the void of nothing that it was in. The priest who came up with the theory never saw that coming.

BTW, when you ask the question *where did god come from?* when talking about creation you are actually talking about the psycho biblical deity. Just about all of the other fairy tales about creator gods explain where they came from. So it is best to use one of his aliases = Jealous, Yahweh, I am who I am, Jehovah, the Word, Elohim, Adonai, etc.

 

HUH? He was a Belgian astronomer and a priest.

Right.

HUH?

The original "ball" was something called "a singularity". You don't seem to know much of anything about black holes. One has been discovered at the center of our galaxy. It's referred to as "a super-massive black hole". It's mass is estimated at 4.1 million solar masses. The most massive black hole ever found is located 10.4 billion light years away from us and it weighs in at 66 billion solar masses. While the event horizon may be as large in diameter as the earth, the mass itself occupies a dot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermassive_black_hole

The singularity responsible for the Big Bang would have been a dot that contained all the mass and energy needed to form the universe. You do understand that the mass or a black hole does not consist of atoms or molecules, right?