The Devil, Satan, and Lucifer: What's the Difference?

http://thinkaboutit-knowaboutit.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-devil-satan-and-lucifer-whats.html

An interesting article.

Three interesting points:
1. Christianity is polytheistic in nature. A point raised before, however it was ignored.
2. The Devil, Satan, and Lucifer are three different entries.
3. If the two above are correct, then that simply turns mainstream Christianity on its head.

Which is one of the many reason why I am finding Biblical scholarship to be so interesting. The original intent and original writings bare little resemblance to what is accepted today as truth by Christians. However, things are such when people believe the best way is to find God in an ancient self-contradicting book instead of personal experience. I have several books on Biblical scholarship that are begging to be read.

Thoughts? If the article is in fact incorrect, on what basis is it proven to be incorrect?

 

I was going to post in your last thread on this topic and tell you not to expect any replies, at least not any worth reading.

I've gone down this road and the reponse is usually to avoid it like the plague. People are the most aggressive when you attempt a frontal assault in regards to their religion as they perceive it because in that realm they can justify anything. However when you try the frontal assault in regards to things that bring them out of their element the discussion either never takes place or is not worth having in a way that makes other religious discussions seems reasonable.

There's nothing for them to hold onto and therefore no way for them to participate.

 

Well, I find the subject matter rather amusing. Why? Because there is not a living soul today who KNOWS the ancient languages that have been grossly abused by thousands who have attempted to write translations. Therefore, any and all of the alleged learning that you have sought after and reportedly received, is nothing more than a prime example of you taking it upon the alleged authority of another 'man'. The same critter (man) that the non theists like to slam for (as the non theists claim) having written the Bible. What it all boils down to then, is a matter of what a person wants to believe. You perhaps don't believe the Bible (based upon your own study of the words of man) or perhaps because you have been told by man that this or that is the correct way to view and interpret the Bible. So, outside the alleged authority of people (man) who don't speak those ancient languages, what proof do you have to support your claims?

 

Your argument can be applied to the Bible as well.

 

Absolutely... that is why I have indicated that some non-theists make that argument against the Bible. With that same argument being applied to the Bible, then the underlying reason for a person believing or not believing in God has to be one of personal experience outside the experience of some other person telling them that the Bible means this that or the other thing. At that point, the person making the expression of his/her belief or non-belief in God is basing that expression of 'faith' toward God on an entirely personal experience which cannot be denied by the other person.

Example: A man tells a woman that he loves her dearly. She then has the opportunity to either believe, not believe, or wait for further evidence before drawing a conclusion. She does not necessarily need the opinions of other people, but rather the manifestation of evidence coming from the one making the claim. Much like the non-theists do with regard to a theist making a claim toward the existence of God. Can the man PROVE his love for the woman? Subjectivity cannot be proven. Love is a subjective thing. The woman though might think that the offering of physical things is an evidence of love, in which case the man is not proving love, but rather is proving that he can provide physical things that meet her desires and the 'love' thing is then based on objectivity (physicality) rather than subjectivity (spirituality). The woman has thus caused the man to present her with apples instead of the oranges which he spoke about.

 

Devil, Satan = Evil Spirits

Lucifer = A Man, more directly a people, with Satans' spirit in him/them.

GOD tells us plainly who each one is, in the Bible. the book of Job and Revelation

 

What particular chapters and verses?

 

Let me also add, that Isaiah speaks on Lucifer as well. I posted the chap./verse below:


Holy Bible speaking on Satan :

Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.



Holy Bible speaking on Lucifer :

Isaiah 14:12-16

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer,[a] son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.

16 “Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,



Holy Bible speaking Lucifer again:

Revelation 13:18

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of aman ; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six

 

Rev 12:9
The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Rev 20:2
He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.


The Bible doesn't directly confirm that Satan is Lucifer. But the description matches how Satan was cast down on earth.


Ezekiel 28:14-17
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

 

Well, thank you for those cites. Yes Lucifer and Satan are both mentioned in the Bible. No argument on that point.

However, with regard to the interpretation of the use of the word 'man' in context to those entities being a 'man', I have to disagree.

Satan, the Devil, Lucifer, and any of the other titles that might be ascribed to that entity, are spirit. NOT a physical man, but can influence a physical man to such a degree that it would appear to the natural eye that the physical man is the one that is operating when in fact, the physical man is merely obeying the demands of that spiritual entity. Your Revelation cite regarding the 'number of a man' has been explored far too many times in attempts to properly identify what 'particular man' would be portraying that antichrist. Because of those numerous failures in identifying that particular man, it is evident (due to those failures) that the scholars who have made those attempts recognize that the physical man is not the entity but has been influenced by that entity to such a degree that even those scholars were fooled. "...that even the very elect should be deceived..." (paraphrased).

In your quoted text (emphasized in red letter), a reference to Lucifer is made that he is "a son of the morning". Not the son of a 'man'.

 

Some consider them to be one and the same being. Some consider Satan and the Devil to be the same, but that Lucifer was a different character all together (ie a disgraced Babylonian king as prescribed in the 14th Chapter of Isaiah). And some consider them to be three different beings. Everyone has their sources, but it gets interesting when going back to Judaic texts then comparing them back to the Bible to see who is who.

 

The equivalent of Lucifer in Greek is Eosforos and it means the same thing "light bringer" . If you connect the names with the story of Promitheas (which is common to many different ancient cultures) it gets simple : a trickster stole knowledge from the gods and deliver it to humans getting punished in the process .

I disagree with OP's first post , Christianity was made by a sect of Jews and just included local polytheistic elements in the areas it expanded but in the core it remained monotheistic.

 

Lucifer, aka the devil/Satan, was in this guy, or so he claims.

[h=1]Gerome Robinson Blames Devil For Attempted Rape Of 13-Year-Old Girl: Cops[/h]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/05/gerome-robinson-devil_n_1858250.html?1346878930&utm_hp_ref=crime

If Satan entered Judas couldn't he have also entered this guy? If you believe one why not the other?

 

Indeed, why not? That guy sounds full of Satan. But that's no more excuse for him than it was for Judas.

 

The problem with making such a claim in this society today is that the courts will automatically reject the claim because there is no scientific testing that can be done to validate or invalidate the claim. Therefore, in the US, the courts have adopted the policy of rejecting the claim of "the devil made me do it" or "God made me do it". In an Ecclesiastical court operating under the strict teachings of the Bible, such a claim is not always rejected (except when trying to maintain a certain political correctness), but will sometimes accept the claim and does operate in a manner in which the claim can be proven using Biblical standards of testing as opposed to the scientific method. Science rejects such a claim for the same reason that the courts reject the claim.

 

This is ^ incorrect. I would just ask that you pray over your Bible and study more. When GOD calls Man a Man, he does jus that. He makes clear distiction every time.

the "Son of the Morning"^^ here is Satan. Lucifer here^^ is Man under Satan.

So when you read it, it reads like this "O'Lucifer,(comma) son of the Morning(Satan)."

And because Satan is a spirit, he doesn't have to "..proclaim his thrown above the stars of GOD", He can travel back and forth as he pleases without the help/aid of rocketship and spacesuits to breathe.

 

Yes, everyone should study the Bible and should strive to gain comprehension of what has been said.
"Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

Nowhere in that passage does it say that God created a 'woman'. It does say that God created 'man' and that the 'man' occupied both the 'male' and 'female' genders. Even the science of today recognizes that the male and female genders share the same chromosomes that makes one either a male or female. In example... a male also has female chromosomes and the female has male chromosomes... therefore, both are classed in that passage of scripture as 'man' as in mankind.

According to your private interpretation.

I don't recall anyone suggesting that satan or any other spirit was requiring the use of a rocket ship or spacesuits.

 

There is no difference between either of them. All terms refer to the renegade angel who was sent to further Creation, but failed in his mission due to using the concepts of temptation. The term Satan / Devil seems to refer to Lucifer after his fall.

 

In Judaism, ha-Satan is the title of one charged with arguing against Israel. In the Tanakh, we usually identify it as an angel given the job by God, but humans can act in that capacity as well.
Either way, it is done in accordance with God's will, and whatever entity is in the role acts under His authority and direction.

Since angels have no free will, they cannot rebel or challenge God.

Of course, this contrasts greatly with Christianity, which often recognizes all three as a single entity that is in constant rebellion and struggle with God.

In all, it isn't a bad article, but it does blur Judaism and Christianity a lot.
While there certainly is room for different interpretations within Judaism, some of the ideas presented simply aren't found within mainstream Judaism (ie: Isaiah 14:12 referring to Satan and Lucifer and Satan being linked by 2nd Temple Jews).

 

Isaiah 14:12 (CEB) = How you’ve fallen from heaven, morning star, son of dawn!
You are cut down to earth, helpless on your back!


Jesus said that he was the morning star. So maybe Jesus is Satan/Lucifer/the devil.

Revelation 22:16 (NKJV) = I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

Of course once the morning star gets into Christians they could become Jesus/Satan/Lucifer/the devil.

2 Peter 1:19 (NKJV) = And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;

 

What about Muslims? Are Muslims also polytheists in your view on the world?

http://youtu.be/bNgU3ojwlCM

 

Muslims are also polytheists because they believe in Satan, angels, and spirits. Since those beings have eternal life they are gods.

 

Eternal life does not a god make.

 

How many mortals have eternal life?

 

Living a very long time does not make you a god per se.