The Future EU Army

Some of them will, certainly. They have little choice. Some won't. But the Germans will certainly cobble together some kind of coalition.

Thankfully, the Germans have proven themselves poor international leaders. Their coalition is unlikely to be enough.

 

Yeah, all they need is money. Where does that come from. Germany is already one of the most taxed countries in the world.

 

Germany has plenty of money. Indeed, in my opinion they have too much money.

In terms of capital they punch well above their weight.

 

Sooo, in your opinion even though they lack the funding to properly equip a 179,000 man army, they have plenty of money to equip a multi million man army. It seems to defy logic, but whatever. I also assume you are bright enough to realize that for every person they put in uniform it means one less person in the private sector paying taxes and one more person on the government payroll.

 

The Germans could run a massive deficit for half a century and maybe then start to approach American levels of indebtedness.

The only thing stopping the Germans from building a military is Hitler's ghost. But they're going to get over it, they have to. They, like the Japanese, are going to learn that one cannot retain autonomy unless they have the means to defend it.

 

Not to change the subject but why would anyone invade Germany? In all modern wars, Germany has been the aggressor. They have been the aggressor because they lack natural resources. In fact, that is why most wars come about, other countries wanting what you have. If your country has nothing they want, why would they invade?

Even a power as poor as the USSR did not see enough value in East Germany to keep it. The truth is that Germany's greatest resource is it's people. That resource is not controllable and is not what anyone would want.

Russia already has shown it has no desires on Germany. What does Germany have that China or the US would want?

 

Ask the Romans, Hungarians, Ottoman Turks, French, Danes, Swedes, Huns, and whoever else I can't think of right now.

The fact of the matter is that groups of humans don't like being at the mercy of other groups of humans. As a result, Russians want to move their forces as far west as possible, American want their forces as far east as possible, and the Germans are scared of the Russians and resentful of the Americans.

Why do you think the Americans cared what happened to China mid-century?

Because there was another group of humans growing in power relative to them.

Go back to 1950. Remove the Americans. What happens next?

Go back to 1910. Make the German Army magically disappear. What happens next?

 

'Defend'....

The EU army will be used to threaten nations trying to leave the EU.

 

No way. Americans will spend 100,000s of lives over unity, because we're an actual country. Nobody is going to fight and die for Europe.

 

You're probably right. But I bet the bulk of the nations in the EU now wouldn't risk it.

Alternatively, they are currently importing a lot of folks who likely would fight if certain religious leaders were properly 'convinced'...

 

Early invaders wanted slaves, anything they could plunder, in some cases land for farming and retaliation for raids by Germanic tribes. None of that applies in today's world.

The United States see other countries as threats because the US has an abundance of natural resources. China like Germany has little and needs them to survive.

Dude, name the last country to get invaded to set up a military base. That is done with treaties.

If America left Germany in 1950, the USSR would have grabbed the rest of it. Then just like in East Germany, they would have taken everything that they wanted and abandoned what was left.

Take away the German military in 1910 and WW1 and WW11 do not happen.

 

That applies to what, the Romans, Huns, and Hungarians? Why did the Danes, Swedes, and French invade Germany during the Thirty Years War? For the Danes and Swedes, was it really about defending their Lutheran brethren from Catholic oppressors? Probably in part, yes. But it was also about expanding their own power at the expense of the Hapsburgs. For the French this fact was even more obvious, considering that the Cardinal Ricolieu (can't be bothered to look up how to spell it) was attacking a fellow Catholic Monarch under siege by the Protestants. And what were the Ottomans trying to do? More Christians were only going to bring more problems. Why did they want to smash the Hapsburgs? Again, complicated, but ultimately the Ottomans and the Christians distrusted one another, and always tried to maintain the upper hand.

Syria. We're there, now. And it has nothing to do with stealing Syrian oil. Hell, we don't even want to steal Iranian natural resources. We want to keep the Iranians weak because geopolitical concerns go well beyond natural resources.

I don't know where you get the idea that they didn't want anything to do with East Germany. You do know where Vladimir Putin is said to have been during the collapse of the USSR? Do you think that German unification in the aftermath of the USSR's collapse was just coincidence?

The Russians wouldn't have stopped at Germany, either. They would have taken the entire continent. And then they would have expanded their navy to try and conquer Britain, the United States, and Japan.

Nonsense. With no German military in 1910 the Russians and French would have picked Germany apart, like the Germans and Russians had done to Poland centuries before.



You're approaching this from a rather strange point of view. Again, can you explain why the British cared if the Germans conquered Poland? Why the Americans cared if the Japanese conquered China? Why the British cared about the Italian conquests in the Balkans? Why the Americans fought the Communists in Greece and Turkey? Again, it all comes down to a simple point: Groups of humans don't want to be at the mercy of other groups of humans. We will do everything we can to strengthen our position and weaken that of our potential rivals. The Americans weren't trying to conquer Europe for it's natural resources, we were trying to stop either the Germans or the Russians from controlling the entire continent.

 

Supreme and Paramount leader of the free world? WTF? Rice? Dude, you are seriously deranged...stalker to the Nth degree. Secret Service, you see this whacko?!

 

France: We are a nuclear power!

US: Well, you have nuclear weapons, that's true. But, after we shoot down the 20 nukes you have, then
we'll steamroll your weak army - if we actually gave a **** about controlling France. Which, we don't. So,
how about you shut your arrogant **** pocket, and shove your EU army up your ass.

 

Wow you have your own version of history. Europeans have always fought each other. They stupidly followed their inbred kings and queens.

Russia went after Germany because Germany invaded Russia and killed about 30 million people. The US entered the war because Japan bombed Pearl Harbor and Germany declared war on the US.

 

Holy Christ, there is some stupidity being thrown around in this thread. Son, if you're a millennial - just don't try to talk about history, because you don't have a ****ing clue.

The only millennials that I have any respect for (as a combat veteran), are the 1% who served in Iraq and Afghanistan. The other 99% of you, are just annoying little bitches. You are a wasted generation.

 

Oh ... this is only a lousy try of payback by you here?

Go back to school and learn to do things with facts and not with idiotic claims like this ...
With nothing, but also with nothing you have managed to deliver actual facts, and. Deliver facts in the right context. You have been disproved in all points - topic done!

 

Why do you pretend they can't afford to manufacture more rifles? How does Switzerland afford their rifles, or Finland? Think about it Mr "It's impossible".

 

Oh, fact is Germany can't stand up to the US. We would mop that ass up in less than 90 days.
With allies like your Germany. Who needs enemies.

Oh and those links I provided was actual reporting about your so called best of the best. That you say fixed their problems in 6 months.

So if anyone that needs schooling then you should take your 20something intelligence back to the drawing board.

 

It is very logical. US has insisted on maintaining NATO, which ensures member countries don't have to spend much on military, so they don't. It NATO goes away, it is a simple political decision to spend more on military.

 

They kept it as long as they could.

 

Why would the Eastern Europeans even allow Germany to dictate to them about anything? Its not Germany that will show up and save the day.

 

Europe’s Militaries Have a Sharing Problem.....
Forget an EU Army. When close allies can’t even buy equipment together, closer defense cooperation is a pipe dream.


But most experts believe a massive undertaking like a “European Army” is unlikely to come to fruition anytime soon. And the fact that EU countries still haven’t mastered the far simpler act of joint procurement is typically cited as a case in point.

According to Dick Zandee, a senior fellow at the Netherlands Institute of International Relations and former head of the EDA’s planning and policy unit, joint procurements tend to go wrong for two reasons: diverging military requirements and conflicting industrial interests.

But the days of a true common market for defense, let alone an EU army, remain a distant dream — possibly one that will never come to pass. “Armed forces are the most powerful symbols of national sovereignty,” Linnenkamp said. “Countries want to have the ability to produce military equipment at home.”

The irony, he added, is that although the steel, mortars, and tanks may still be produced at home, the computer chips that direct the equipment’s actions now mostly come from countries like Thailand.....snip~


Elisabeth Braw is an adjunct fellow at the Center for European Policy Analysis and leads the modern deterrence program at the Royal United Services Institute.


https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/10/27/europes-militaries-have-a-sharing-problem/

Back to that Nationalism again, huh?

 

Oh dear ... you must really have taken some funny pills to write such a nonsense...
I had refuted all of your points, but if you ignore it, your problem and I would say you need to go back to the drawing boward to learn handling facts and not giving BS
You say you provided actual reporting? Maybe, but taken out of context and not telling all facts about ... as shown by me!

But the general problem is, that we have of course a much smaller Armed Force than you, but do we need a bigger one? Really? No!
We do not have a world wide intention to play the war dog everywhere and out of this have a need to have bases all over the world. Our Armed Forces are for our defense only, not to be a threat to a somehow enemy of a partner at the ass of the world from us!
Do we, for example, have a need for any Aircraft Carrier in our Navy? No ... so why shall we have one for the Baltic and Northern Sea please?

Yes, the condition of our Armed Forces is not the best and I had it not only never denied, I have this criticized here too! For example these silly 2% to spend in military. I say we must do, because we have such a need to do!
But the clueless BS claim and demand of Trump we have to do immediatly is crap, because the duty to do by contract is only given from 2024 on! But such little details ar eof course ignored when shouting in my country, eh?

And about the best of the best ... investigate who use your M1A1/A2 tank in the world and who use the Leopard 2. Ask yourself why ... aside the fact that the 120mm gun of the M1A1 is the German gun of the Leopard 2 up to A5 version (from A6 on we have a longer gun).

So facts, facts and again facts with full context next time please!

 

Still happening since years! Investigate better next time!
Look on Leopard 2 users, A400M users, Typhoon users ...

Ignoring facts again .... look on all the joint ventures of military equipment in Europe and then keep in silence!
Oh ... not to forget: Your computer chips are again produced where, eh? You think in the USA? ROFL ....