The great divide.

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by garyd, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    In basic theology all the worlds religions can be divided into two groups.

    These groups are theologies of works and theologies of grace.

    Theologies of works believe that whether you go to heaven or hell (or contiue to circulate in one form or the other or get off the merry-go-round) depends entirely on what you as a person do.

    In theologies of Grace salvation is entirely up to God who is required to make some action to prevent a person from going to hell.

    Theologies of works tend to come in two varieties. I will here in reference them as externalized and internalized. Internalized theologies of works generally are all about self perfection. Externalized theologies of works tend to be about perfecting the world, thereby removing all temptation to wrong doing from it. The best example of an internalized theology of works is Buddhism. The best example of an externalized theology of works is Islam.

    The chief problem with theologies of works is that one can never make one's self less guilty of the wrongs one has done.
     
  2. Anobsitar

    Anobsitar Banned

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    The grace of god without good deeds is an excuse for lazybones only - if someone is in the grace of god then s/he's 'automatically' doing good deeds.

    http://youtu.be/D7DiR--b9DQ
    http://youtu.be/G-GfThZpf28
    http://youtu.be/DGXNr79PtM0
     
  3. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Of Course, that is after all the whole point of James is it not?
    But one should further understand that Godly works do not save but rather are the reflection of a salvation already guaranteed. Thus we see the apprent conundrum of the allegory of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25.
     
  4. Neutral

    Neutral New Member Past Donor

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    That is not quite true. Both works and grace are infused throughout Christian doctrine, and, depending on the sect, those two concepts are given a greater degree or lesser degree of value. What is key to understanding what this value is, is the concept of atonement - wherein we take a good hard look at our ACTS during the week and seek atonement and repentence for those acts that were ... short of the goal. In this concept, there are calls to act - charity, service, tithing, etc., and acts to avoid, lying, stealing, etc. However, no man is perfect, and that is were grace comes in. At the end of our days, as we are judged, we will all se our sins and failures, grace is filling the gap between the reality of humanity and its inperfection, and the perfectuon required to dwell in the prescence of God.

    It grace, not our acts, that ultimately allows us to rejoin our father, but an accounting of our acts upon this earth will have consequences as well.
     
  5. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. Godly works are merely the demonstration that you are saved. Again Let us contrast the sheep and the goats of Matthew 25. Both are given exactly the same qualifier. You saw me thirsty, hungry, naked, etc. The goats reponse is when did we see you in such a situation and not do these things? You can almost picture them thumbing through their resumes.
    The sheep on the other hand don't recall having done anything and say as much. What then is the difference? Attitude toward thier works. It's not that the sheep have no works, rather it is that the these works, because of the spirit that inhabits them are as normal them as breathing and therefore as remarkable. For the goats these things are out of character and truly try their patience hence they seldom if ever forget a work they've done that they consider God pleasing.
     

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